SWC75
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As of today (4/20/22), the Syracuse Mets are 1-10, with the worst record in triple A baseball. Jim Lersch, “The Manchild”, a long-time Mets fan said that Syracuse baseball fans should not expect a lot of winning from the Mets because the Mets organization is not ed for not caring about winning in the minors: it’s all about player development. Ironically, the Syracuse Chiefs were the first New York Mets AAA team in 1962, (shared with the Twins). I’ve often wondered what the Chiefs’ record over the years would have been compared to what we actually got because the Chief’s record, especially when they became affiliated with Toronto, has been rather dismal. I once computed every organization’s AAA winning percentage during the Toronto years and we were last of the 30 teams. The Mets during much of that period, seemed more successful at this level.
I decided to compare Syracuse’s records to that of the Mets’ AAA affiliate since 1962 to see which would have been better. BaseballReference.com has the numbers:
1962 International League | Baseball-Reference.com and
Category:International League - BR Bullpen
Note the Chiefs were the Tiger’s AAA farm team from 1963-66, the Yankees from 1967-77, the Blue Jays from 1978-2008, the Nationals 2009-2018 and then became the Syracuse Mets in 2019. There was no minor league season in 2020 due to the pandemic. Seasons where the league was split into divisions are marked by astericks (*) GC = Governor’s Cup, the championship of the international league playoffs. JWS = Junior World Series or any series against another Triple A league. The teams that had the better regular season record and that went farther in the post season are noted using the ‘=’ sign.
1962 Chiefs 53-101 8th Mets same = even
1963* Chiefs 80-70 1st Mets 74-77 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Indianapolis 1-4 = Chiefs
1964 Chiefs 88-66 2nd Mets 80-69 3rd = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Mets 4-3, lost GC to Rochester 2-4 = Chiefs
1965 Chiefs 74-73 4th Mets 51-96 8th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Columbus 2-4 = Chiefs
1966 Chiefs 54-93 8th Mets 72-75 5th = Mets
1967 Chiefs 63-77 8th Mets 66-73 5th = Mets
1968 Chiefs 72-75 6th Mets 75-71 4th = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Toledo 3-1 and then Columbus 4-0 in the GC = Mets
1969 Chiefs 75-65 3rd Mets 76-59 1st = Mets
Postseason: Chiefs beat Louisville 3-2, Mets lost to Columbus 1-3, Chiefs beat Columbus 4-1 for the GC = Chiefs
1970 Chiefs 84-56 1st Mets 74-66 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Mets 3-0 then Columbus 3-1 for GC then Omaha (AA) 4-1 for JWS = Chiefs
1971 Chiefs 73-67 4th Mets 79-61 2nd = Mets
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Rochester 1-3, Mets beat Charleston 3-0 but lost to Rochester in the GC 2-3 = Mets
1972 Chiefs 64-80 7th Mets 78-65 3rd = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Charleston 2-1 and then Louisville 3-2 for the GC = Mets
1973* Chiefs 76-70 3rd Mets 75-70 2nd = Chiefs
Postseason: Mets lost to Pawtucket 2-3 = Mets
1974* Chiefs 74-70 2nd Mets 57-82 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Richmond 4-1 but lost to Rochester 3-4 for the GC = Chiefs
1975 Chiefs 72-64 3rd Mets 86-55 1st = Mets
Postseason: Chiefs 3 Rochester 1, Mets 3 Charleston 0, then Mets 3 Chiefs 1 for GC = Mets
1976 Chiefs 82-57 2nd Mets 60-78 8th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Memphis 3-0 and Richmond 3-1 for the GC = Chiefs
1977 Chiefs 70-70 5th Mets 73-67 3rd = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Charleston 1-3 = Mets
1978 Chiefs 50-90 8th Mets 69-71 5th = Mets
1979 Chiefs 77-63 2nd Mets 73-67 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Richmond 3-2, Mets lost to Columbus 1-3, Chiefs lost to Columbus 3-4 for the GC = Chiefs
1980 Chiefs 58-81 8th Mets 67-72 6th = Mets
1981 Chiefs 60-80 7th Mets 70-68 3rd = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Richmond 2-3 = Mets
1982 Chiefs 64-76 6th Mets 74-63 3rd = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Columbus 3-0 and then Rochester 3-0 for the GC = Mets
1983 Chiefs 61-78 7th Mets 71-68 4th = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Columbus 3-2 and then Richmond 3-1 for the GC, then went 3-1 to beat Denver (AA) and Portland (PCL) in the JWS = Mets
1984 Chiefs 58-81 7th Mets 71-69 5th = Mets
1985 Chiefs 79-61 1st Mets 75-64 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Columbus 1-3, Mets beat Maine 3-2 and then Columbus 3-1 for the GC = Mets
1986 Chiefs 72-67 5th Mets 74-66 4th = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Richmond 0-3 = Mets
1987 Chiefs 68-72 6th Mets 81-59 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Pawtucket 3-1, then lost to Columbus 0-3 for the GC = Mets
1988* Chiefs 70-71 2nd Mets 77-64 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Rochester 1-3 for GC = Mets
1989* Chiefs 83-62 1st Mets 77-69 3rd = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Richmond 1-3 for GC = Chiefs
1990* Chiefs 62-83 3rd Mets 79-67 2nd = Mets
1991* Chiefs 73-71 3rd Mets 77-65 2nd = Mets
1992* Chiefs 60-83 4th Mets 56-86 4th = Chiefs
1993* Chiefs 59-82 5th Mets 70-71 4th = Mets
1994* Chiefs 71-71 2nd Mets 67-75 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Pawtucket 3-1, then lost to Richmond 0-3 for the GC = Chiefs
1995* Chiefs 59-82 5th Mets 86-56 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Richmond 3-2, then lost to Ottawa 1-3 for the GC = Mets
1996* Chiefs 67-75 4th Mets 82-59 2nd = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Columbus 0-3 = Mets
1997* Chiefs 55-87 4th Mets 75-67 3rd = Mets
1998* Chiefs 80-62 2nd Mets 70-72 2nd = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Buffalo 0-3 = Chiefs
1999* Chiefs 73-71 3rd Mets 77-63 3rd = Mets
2000* Chiefs 74-66 4th Mets 65-79 3rd = Chiefs
2001* Chiefs 71-73 3rd Mets 85-57 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Louisville 2-3 = Mets
2002* Chiefs 64-80 4th Mets 70-73 3rd = Mets
2003* Chiefs 62-79 6th Mets 67-76 3rd = Mets
2004* Chiefs 66-78 6th Mets 72-72 3rd = Mets
2005* Chiefs 71-73 4th Mets 79-65 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Toledo 2-3 = Mets
2006* Chiefs 64-79 6th Mets 57-84 3rd = Chiefs
2007* Chiefs 64-80 5th Mets 69-74 3rd = Mets
2008* Chiefs 69-73 4th Mets 64-78 2nd = Chiefs
2009* Chiefs 76-68 2nd Mets 56-87 6th = Chiefs
2010* Chiefs 76-67 2nd Mets 76-68 3rd = Chiefs
2011* Chiefs 66-74 4th Mets 66-74 5th = Chiefs
2012* Chiefs 70-74 5th Mets 67-76 6th = Chiefs
2013* Chiefs 66-78 6th Mets 77-67 2nd = Mets
2014* Chiefs 81-62 1st Mets 81-63 1st = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Pawtucket 0-3, Mets lost to Reno 1-3 = Mets
2015* Chiefs 66-78 4th Mets 77-67 2nd = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Columbus 2-3 = Mets
2016* Chiefs 61-82 6th Mets 70-74 3rd = Mets
2017* Chiefs 54-87 6th Mets 56-86 4th = Mets
2018* Chiefs 64-76 5th Mets 71-69 3rd = Mets
2019* Chiefs 75-66 2nd Mets same = even
2021* Chiefs 50-75 5th Mets same = even
In 59 seasons, the Mets Triple A farm teams have won 4,260 games and lost 4,178, a winning percent age of .505. They’ve won 5 Governor’s Cups and on Junior World Series. Syracuse has won 4,078 games and lost 4,426, a winning percentage of .479. They’ve won 3 Governor’s Cups and one Junior World Series, all during the Yankees Era, the last one coming 46 years ago. Since then, we’ve made the playoffs 6 times. The Mets haven’t won a GC or JWS since 1985, 37 years ago. They’ve been to the playoffs 8 times since then. In this century, the Chiefs have made the playoffs once and the Mets four times. Neither has won a series and they are a combined 7-15 in the playoffs. So the history of the Chiefs since they came back in 1962 would have been better if they’d stuck with the Mets but the difference, especially in recent years hasn’t been great.
Of course, those numbers were accumulated over multiple affiliations for the Chiefs, multiple venues for the Mets and multiple ownership and management regimes who may have had different philosophies. I think it’s significant that the Mets have bought the team and spent a lot of money improving the ball park, (frankly, I was much more impressed with what the Mets did with the baseball stadium than with what SU has done with the Dome- so far). The Mets have an interest in making their Triple A team be a financial success, hopefully to be self-supporting. Also, we finally have an owner with deep pockets who is determined to win. I think Steven Cohen could do for the Mets what George Steinbrenner did for the Yankees. George took over a Yankees organization that CBS had treated like a brand name and poured money into it. He liked free agents and big trades that made headlines but he also filled the organization with good baseball people who used George’s money to build up the Yankee’s farm system. I’ve always been jealous to the incredible success the Columbus Clippers had when George moved his triple A team there. They won pennants in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1991, 1992, 1996 and 1999 and Governor’s Cup in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1987, 1991, 1992 and 1996 before the Yankees moved on the Scranton. That’s quite a run but maybe something approaching that could happen here. I also liked former GM Brodie Van Wagenen’s plan of stocking the triple A team with ex-major leaguers to created a sort of bullpen for position players, which led to a 75-66 record in 2019. He’s gone but that’s not a bad a idea and it could benefit the Chiefs, I mean the Syracuse Mets, (I call them the Smets), as well.
I decided to compare Syracuse’s records to that of the Mets’ AAA affiliate since 1962 to see which would have been better. BaseballReference.com has the numbers:
1962 International League | Baseball-Reference.com and
Category:International League - BR Bullpen
Note the Chiefs were the Tiger’s AAA farm team from 1963-66, the Yankees from 1967-77, the Blue Jays from 1978-2008, the Nationals 2009-2018 and then became the Syracuse Mets in 2019. There was no minor league season in 2020 due to the pandemic. Seasons where the league was split into divisions are marked by astericks (*) GC = Governor’s Cup, the championship of the international league playoffs. JWS = Junior World Series or any series against another Triple A league. The teams that had the better regular season record and that went farther in the post season are noted using the ‘=’ sign.
1962 Chiefs 53-101 8th Mets same = even
1963* Chiefs 80-70 1st Mets 74-77 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Indianapolis 1-4 = Chiefs
1964 Chiefs 88-66 2nd Mets 80-69 3rd = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Mets 4-3, lost GC to Rochester 2-4 = Chiefs
1965 Chiefs 74-73 4th Mets 51-96 8th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Columbus 2-4 = Chiefs
1966 Chiefs 54-93 8th Mets 72-75 5th = Mets
1967 Chiefs 63-77 8th Mets 66-73 5th = Mets
1968 Chiefs 72-75 6th Mets 75-71 4th = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Toledo 3-1 and then Columbus 4-0 in the GC = Mets
1969 Chiefs 75-65 3rd Mets 76-59 1st = Mets
Postseason: Chiefs beat Louisville 3-2, Mets lost to Columbus 1-3, Chiefs beat Columbus 4-1 for the GC = Chiefs
1970 Chiefs 84-56 1st Mets 74-66 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Mets 3-0 then Columbus 3-1 for GC then Omaha (AA) 4-1 for JWS = Chiefs
1971 Chiefs 73-67 4th Mets 79-61 2nd = Mets
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Rochester 1-3, Mets beat Charleston 3-0 but lost to Rochester in the GC 2-3 = Mets
1972 Chiefs 64-80 7th Mets 78-65 3rd = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Charleston 2-1 and then Louisville 3-2 for the GC = Mets
1973* Chiefs 76-70 3rd Mets 75-70 2nd = Chiefs
Postseason: Mets lost to Pawtucket 2-3 = Mets
1974* Chiefs 74-70 2nd Mets 57-82 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Richmond 4-1 but lost to Rochester 3-4 for the GC = Chiefs
1975 Chiefs 72-64 3rd Mets 86-55 1st = Mets
Postseason: Chiefs 3 Rochester 1, Mets 3 Charleston 0, then Mets 3 Chiefs 1 for GC = Mets
1976 Chiefs 82-57 2nd Mets 60-78 8th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Memphis 3-0 and Richmond 3-1 for the GC = Chiefs
1977 Chiefs 70-70 5th Mets 73-67 3rd = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Charleston 1-3 = Mets
1978 Chiefs 50-90 8th Mets 69-71 5th = Mets
1979 Chiefs 77-63 2nd Mets 73-67 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Richmond 3-2, Mets lost to Columbus 1-3, Chiefs lost to Columbus 3-4 for the GC = Chiefs
1980 Chiefs 58-81 8th Mets 67-72 6th = Mets
1981 Chiefs 60-80 7th Mets 70-68 3rd = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Richmond 2-3 = Mets
1982 Chiefs 64-76 6th Mets 74-63 3rd = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Columbus 3-0 and then Rochester 3-0 for the GC = Mets
1983 Chiefs 61-78 7th Mets 71-68 4th = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Columbus 3-2 and then Richmond 3-1 for the GC, then went 3-1 to beat Denver (AA) and Portland (PCL) in the JWS = Mets
1984 Chiefs 58-81 7th Mets 71-69 5th = Mets
1985 Chiefs 79-61 1st Mets 75-64 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Columbus 1-3, Mets beat Maine 3-2 and then Columbus 3-1 for the GC = Mets
1986 Chiefs 72-67 5th Mets 74-66 4th = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Richmond 0-3 = Mets
1987 Chiefs 68-72 6th Mets 81-59 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Pawtucket 3-1, then lost to Columbus 0-3 for the GC = Mets
1988* Chiefs 70-71 2nd Mets 77-64 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Rochester 1-3 for GC = Mets
1989* Chiefs 83-62 1st Mets 77-69 3rd = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Richmond 1-3 for GC = Chiefs
1990* Chiefs 62-83 3rd Mets 79-67 2nd = Mets
1991* Chiefs 73-71 3rd Mets 77-65 2nd = Mets
1992* Chiefs 60-83 4th Mets 56-86 4th = Chiefs
1993* Chiefs 59-82 5th Mets 70-71 4th = Mets
1994* Chiefs 71-71 2nd Mets 67-75 4th = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs beat Pawtucket 3-1, then lost to Richmond 0-3 for the GC = Chiefs
1995* Chiefs 59-82 5th Mets 86-56 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets beat Richmond 3-2, then lost to Ottawa 1-3 for the GC = Mets
1996* Chiefs 67-75 4th Mets 82-59 2nd = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Columbus 0-3 = Mets
1997* Chiefs 55-87 4th Mets 75-67 3rd = Mets
1998* Chiefs 80-62 2nd Mets 70-72 2nd = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Buffalo 0-3 = Chiefs
1999* Chiefs 73-71 3rd Mets 77-63 3rd = Mets
2000* Chiefs 74-66 4th Mets 65-79 3rd = Chiefs
2001* Chiefs 71-73 3rd Mets 85-57 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Louisville 2-3 = Mets
2002* Chiefs 64-80 4th Mets 70-73 3rd = Mets
2003* Chiefs 62-79 6th Mets 67-76 3rd = Mets
2004* Chiefs 66-78 6th Mets 72-72 3rd = Mets
2005* Chiefs 71-73 4th Mets 79-65 1st = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Toledo 2-3 = Mets
2006* Chiefs 64-79 6th Mets 57-84 3rd = Chiefs
2007* Chiefs 64-80 5th Mets 69-74 3rd = Mets
2008* Chiefs 69-73 4th Mets 64-78 2nd = Chiefs
2009* Chiefs 76-68 2nd Mets 56-87 6th = Chiefs
2010* Chiefs 76-67 2nd Mets 76-68 3rd = Chiefs
2011* Chiefs 66-74 4th Mets 66-74 5th = Chiefs
2012* Chiefs 70-74 5th Mets 67-76 6th = Chiefs
2013* Chiefs 66-78 6th Mets 77-67 2nd = Mets
2014* Chiefs 81-62 1st Mets 81-63 1st = Chiefs
Postseason: Chiefs lost to Pawtucket 0-3, Mets lost to Reno 1-3 = Mets
2015* Chiefs 66-78 4th Mets 77-67 2nd = Mets
Postseason: Mets lost to Columbus 2-3 = Mets
2016* Chiefs 61-82 6th Mets 70-74 3rd = Mets
2017* Chiefs 54-87 6th Mets 56-86 4th = Mets
2018* Chiefs 64-76 5th Mets 71-69 3rd = Mets
2019* Chiefs 75-66 2nd Mets same = even
2021* Chiefs 50-75 5th Mets same = even
In 59 seasons, the Mets Triple A farm teams have won 4,260 games and lost 4,178, a winning percent age of .505. They’ve won 5 Governor’s Cups and on Junior World Series. Syracuse has won 4,078 games and lost 4,426, a winning percentage of .479. They’ve won 3 Governor’s Cups and one Junior World Series, all during the Yankees Era, the last one coming 46 years ago. Since then, we’ve made the playoffs 6 times. The Mets haven’t won a GC or JWS since 1985, 37 years ago. They’ve been to the playoffs 8 times since then. In this century, the Chiefs have made the playoffs once and the Mets four times. Neither has won a series and they are a combined 7-15 in the playoffs. So the history of the Chiefs since they came back in 1962 would have been better if they’d stuck with the Mets but the difference, especially in recent years hasn’t been great.
Of course, those numbers were accumulated over multiple affiliations for the Chiefs, multiple venues for the Mets and multiple ownership and management regimes who may have had different philosophies. I think it’s significant that the Mets have bought the team and spent a lot of money improving the ball park, (frankly, I was much more impressed with what the Mets did with the baseball stadium than with what SU has done with the Dome- so far). The Mets have an interest in making their Triple A team be a financial success, hopefully to be self-supporting. Also, we finally have an owner with deep pockets who is determined to win. I think Steven Cohen could do for the Mets what George Steinbrenner did for the Yankees. George took over a Yankees organization that CBS had treated like a brand name and poured money into it. He liked free agents and big trades that made headlines but he also filled the organization with good baseball people who used George’s money to build up the Yankee’s farm system. I’ve always been jealous to the incredible success the Columbus Clippers had when George moved his triple A team there. They won pennants in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1991, 1992, 1996 and 1999 and Governor’s Cup in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1987, 1991, 1992 and 1996 before the Yankees moved on the Scranton. That’s quite a run but maybe something approaching that could happen here. I also liked former GM Brodie Van Wagenen’s plan of stocking the triple A team with ex-major leaguers to created a sort of bullpen for position players, which led to a 75-66 record in 2019. He’s gone but that’s not a bad a idea and it could benefit the Chiefs, I mean the Syracuse Mets, (I call them the Smets), as well.
