Cincinnati thoughts

[General20]

Winning back to back games against Louisville and Cincinnati without Southerland is really more than I could have hoped for. Every SU fan should be ecstatic.

Still, I think there is a tough differentiation that we, as SU fans, need to make at this point. Our team has an elite record. Our team has an elite ranking. Our team is NOT playing at an elite level.

The story of this game was Michael Carter-Williams and (the lack of) Southerland.

I'm not sure how often Cincinnati uses their zone defense (I'm going to have to watch a few of their games and look for it) but they used it pretty much all game against SU with great effect. Syracuse looked impotent against the zone with Fair trying to take Southerland's position spreading the D on the wing, and Grant taking Fair's position in the high post.

Grant is a good player but he wants to play the same position of the court that Fair does, and while his numbers have looked good since Southerland left, you may notice that Fair's numbers have dropped. This is because Fair is playing out of position. Fair hit a couple of jump shots early but basically didn't scare Cincinnati from behind the three point arc - about half of his points came in a short stretch where Syracuse played three guards and Fair was able to work the high post in his usual way.

If Southerland had played in this game I think Fair would have scored 20. And Southerland probably would have scored a bunch too. You couldn't tell against Louisville because Triche covered up the problem, but we really miss Southerland's shooting, and the way he spaces the offense.

Carter-Williams had a great game. In fact, I think it was the best game of his career. He has really struggled against zone's this year, but in this game he looked comfortable. He was able to worm his way into cracks of the zone and hit floaters as well as hit a few jump shots (not to mention the dunk of the year). If MCW played the way he has against any other zone we have faced, Syracuse loses this game. I'm hoping this is the start of an offensive breakthrough for him.

On the other side of the ball Cincinnati had nothing but the three point shot. Their strategy seemed to be to shoot three's, then progressively deeper and deeper threes until Syracuse had to follow them so far away from the basket that even they could score inside. This strategy worked fairly well, but really shouldn't have. By the time Cincinnati hit enough shots from 25 feet and beyond to stretch our zone they had already suffered through a half where they shot 21% and scored only 18 points. If Syracuse's offense was competent the game would have been over long before Cincinnati started scoring on any kind of regular basis.

God help Cincinnati if Kilpatrcik has an off night. Its really hard for me to picture them beating anybody decent without him scoring twenty.

Cincinnati's lack of size and Syracuse's lack of shooting (helped by Grant's absolutely horrible defense) forced Boeheim to go with a three guard offense with Triche playing the forward spot of the zone. Triche was lost in the zone (who can blame him, the last time he played forward had to be in eighth grade or earlier - it certainly wasn't in college or high school), but Cincinnati stuck with their shooting 25 foot three's strategy and never really exploited SU's weak line up. I dont have the exact numbers but it seemed like SU played Cincinnati about even with the three guards in there. The best part of it was that Grant got a good long stretch on the bench (and I'm sure a good talking to as well) and played much better towards the end of the game. So I'd have to say the three guard line up was a success . . . I hope we never ever see it again.

Cincinnati outrebounded Syracuse fairly substantially but I cant say that bother's me. When a team spreads the floor, shoots from deep, and misses badly (which Cincinnati did often) its really difficult for the defense to rebound. Quite frankly, I'll take any game where Syracuse gets out rebounded but holds the opposition to 32% shooting.

On the other hand, part of SU's rebounding problems came from Christmas's poor play, and that does bother me. Keita does a lot of things well, but he is not good enough to be the starting center on a national championship team. If he turns out to be our best center, we are in trouble. Coleman is just not there defensively yet, so that puts a lot of pressure on Christmas. His development has not come fast enough, and I'm pretty sure Boeheim was upset with him. Hopefully he will be able to light a fire under Christmas before his homecoming game against Nova.

 

[shermstheman]

Geez, Cuse beat the #1 team at their place and a ranked, very tough Cincy team- both without James and with CJ ill. I think we are playing at an elite level. In both games, we superb at the end too. In both games we fought back from good sized deficits- twice. Is the team perfect? No. Elite? Yes.

 

[jec1521]

We don't have our best shooter, but found ways to beat two very good teams anyway. That's elite.

And also, I don't think Grant played horrible defense... JB just wanted to put more shooters out on the floor to spread out their zone.

 

[cap2nine]

A few days ago, looking at our schedule, it was apparent that we were entering the toughest 5 game stretch of our conference season. @UL, vs.UC, @Nova, @Pitt, vs.ND... I told myself that 4-1 through that gauntlet would be great. Well, we got the toughest 2 out of the way in fine fashion. And what impresses me with these 2 wins is not that we did it without Southy, but the way the team responded when facing adversity and difficult situations. Clutch plays, a "refuse to lose" attitude and the confidence gained from the last 2 games will go a long way come tournament time.

 

[Gabjon]

We are playing elite level defense and have for sometime (that is why the defensive mistakes are so apparent) but our offensive is nowhere near elite, and it is not just about making shots. Our zone offense it terrible, which is mind boggling but true. It was shameful that we were only up 4 at the half, we should have been up 20 and sure missing James hurt but if our transition offense was working on an elite level we would have been up 10. In a 1 and done format you have to finish plays better, and be more efficient. We should have killed them on the offensive glass yesterday and we didn't do that. You have CJ, Grant and one of the bigs and we only had 7 offensive boards in the game? That's not good enough. We are the tallest team in the country and not playing like it on offense!

 

[OttoMets]

Geez, Cuse beat the #1 team at their place and a ranked, very tough Cincy team- both without James and with CJ ill. I think we are playing at an elite level. In both games, we superb at the end too. In both games we fought back from good sized deficits- twice. Is the team perfect? No. Elite? Yes.

That's just the point. You offered reasons why we're not playing at an elite level, along with an example of our less-than-stellar play.

Southerland's out. Fair's ill. Ill people don't play at an elite level. Grant has worked hard and been a pleasant surprise, but there's been nothing "elite" about his play.

And if we were playing at an elite level we'd have opened up a twenty-point lead on Cincinnati while they couldn't hit a shot - we never would have needed to come back from a big deficit two times.

That was a poorly-played slopfest yesterday in which Carter-Williams played well and a bunch of our guys played very hard, fought through a very unfavorable situation on defense, and earned a win. That's what matters, and that's why it was a happy weekend for Syracuse basketball.

 

[SmilinBob]

I'm still trying to figure out how the heck CJ tipped that ball in! That was one funky tip in and he fought hard for it.

 

[jordoo]

Great breakdown of Cinci's game plan General20. I also agree with you 100% about missing Sutherland and Grant's defense for the first 30ish minutes of the game.

As far as the arguement about not playing at an elite level I think its apparent that we are not. It is very encouraging to win these two games without James, who makes a big difference on both ends, and without playing at an elite level. But those two things are tied together a but as well.

MCW was great and seems to have the ability to hit the big shot or make the big play at the end of games. BTW his shooting is coming around and when he sets himself properly he gets better arc and much better results. This is key because he has shown he can shoot off the dribble or the catch. If he can get up over 35% in BE play teams will have to honor him more which will open up those lanes again.

Brandon was very good IMO but I felt that hit took him a bit too long to abandon the 3pt shot when it wasn't falling. His game off the bounce on offense is very strong with the pull up jumper, floater and taking it all the way. I'd like to see him key on that much more when James gets back, its harder to do that without him.


3pt shooting in BE play rounded to the nearest %age
BT 12-31 39%
MCW 9-28 32%
TC 5-17 29%
CJ 2-7 29%
JS 5-23 22%

Its not as bad as it seems but Triche has been either red hot or ice cold from deep and when he's missing and James isn't around teams are going to pack it in. MCW IMO will be a pretty good 3pt shooter by seasons end as will Brandon. CJ can make them when wide open bit its not his game. Southerland will shoot better if we get him back. Trevor is the one who is really out there to shoot and he is pretty low considering that.

 

[shermstheman]

That's just the point. You offered reasons why we're not playing at an elite level, along with an example of our less-than-stellar play.

Southerland's out. Fair's ill. Ill people don't play at an elite level. Grant has worked hard and been a pleasant surprise, but there's been nothing "elite" about his play.

And if we were playing at an elite level we'd have opened up a twenty-point lead on Cincinnati while they couldn't hit a shot - we never would have needed to come back from a big deficit two times.

That was a poorly-played slopfest yesterday in which Carter-Williams played well and a bunch of our guys played very hard, fought through a very unfavorable situation on defense, and earned a win. That's what matters, and that's why it was a happy weekend for Syracuse basketball.

You are tough to please. Elite does not mean perfect. Elite teams rise above misfortune. They find ways to win, even if its not pretty (Cuse excels at that ). And Cuse was elite when it counted vs. Cincy- those last several minutes were great and clearly elite when it counted vs. Louisville. I think we all hope they continue to play so poorly!

 

[OttoMets]

You are tough to please. Elite does not mean perfect. Elite teams rise above misfortune. They find ways to win, even if its not pretty (Cuse excels at that ). And Cuse was elite when it counted vs. Cincy- those last several minutes were great and clearly elite when it counted vs. Louisville. I think we all hope they continue to play so poorly!

Those important minutes down the stretch were fantastic against both teams - at both ends of the court, too.

Here's hoping we pick up the quality of play, though. Saturday was exciting. Monday was just a very exciting dodged bullet.

 

[reedny]

Lots of good points, General. I've been posting as much for 6 months, although we rose up against adversity and won at the 'Ville in about the same fashion as last year. Other games have exposed us, including Cinci as you pointed out. Temple was another. We struggled at home against Nova and are having to gut out victories against teams that we should be pasting.

Grant's learning curve on D is, hopefully, accelerated after this game, given the minutes he's been logging. Obviously he has a huge upside with his length and athleticism, but Cinci had no problem running the overload or the H/L against us ... with Grant and CJ unable to recover. TC, also, has had some trouble keeping up in the last 2 games -- understandable with the quality of the guards we've faced. He's also a WIP, and has played a little more under control in limited minutes recently.

Our biggest problem, however, is inside. Keita is steady but unspectacular. Rak flashes great talent on one play, then gets beat for a layup the next. DC2 has very limited offense right now, and on D ranges too far out and can't recover. Even MCW, despite his heroics, has had some problems being in the right spot on D. This was not an issue last year with all our experience. Not to mention that we had Fab to erase cutters.

This year, we've been branded a doughnut team and will get zoned (and struggle) until we get it inside and score with some regularity. I do like Grant and CJ's mid-range work -- the foul line is there against a zone. But as you point out, they play similar positions and are struggling to adjust. This would not be a major problem if our centers could score. I don't think having Dirty back would help with this. True, as you point out, he helps our spacing. But teams are already cheating way out and playing us to shoot. Brandon has exploited this by driving, and MCW's starting to figure that out as well. But geez Louise a little offense down low would really freaking help.