CJ is a lazy defender and not the same rebounder

[Cuse4]

Ya his offensive game has improved, but his defense is so bad... he is ridiculously slow and continues to get beat time after time... and where is the CJ that would go up and snatch boards? Don't have stats in front of me, but I remember him being a flat out MAN at Pitt last year... he's the key to this rebounding dropoff

 

[jekelish]

He had 9 rebounds tonight. He's not our rebounding problem. Gottlieb made a great point about how our guards leak out every trip, leaving us to rebound 3 on 5 every defensive trip.

 

[Cuse4]

Idc bout tonight's numbers... he is THE biggest problem with the boards

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Idc bout tonight's numbers... he is THE biggest problem with the boards

Stick to your guns. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

 

[jekelish]

Well, you're wrong.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I agree Jekelish for the most part but in the 1H CJ was absolutely a liability. He was doing a LOT of watching.

 

[jekelish]

Yes, but to say he's the primary reason we are getting beat on the boards is idiotic at best.

 

[SoBeCuse]

No doubt. It's everybody like JB says. Everyone's reb averages are pathetic.

 

[Cuse4]

Yes, but to say he's the primary reason we are getting beat on the boards is idiotic at best.

I agree that it's everybody... No one agrees that he's the biggest issue on the glass?

 

[HoustonCuse]

He had 9 rebounds tonight. He's not our rebounding problem. Gottlieb made a great point about how our guards leak out every trip, leaving us to rebound 3 on 5 every defensive trip.

He may be correct about that, but I doubt it. The example possession they showed to demonstrate his point was a missed shot by GTown in which all five of our players stayed below the foul line for the entire remainder of the possession. That's the worst leak out in basketball history.

Meanwhile, "Mr. Leakout" Dion Waiters had 5 boards tonight and the dope that started this thread to bash CJ must have missed the fact that he led the team in rebounds tonight.

 

[SoBeCuse]

He may be correct about that, but I doubt it. The example possession they showed to demonstrate his point was a missed shot by GTown in which all five of our players stayed below the foul line for the entire remainder of the possession. That's the worst leak out in basketball history.

Too many times recently I'm seeing Fab and various combinations SU forwards right there around the ball but a single GTown or other player grabs it. It's an effort/awareness issue more than a tactical one, imo.

 

[Cuse4]

He may be correct about that, but I doubt it. The example possession they showed to demonstrate his point was a missed shot by GTown in which all five of our players stayed below the foul line for the entire remainder of the possession. That's the worst leak out in basketball history.

Meanwhile, "Mr. Leakout" Dion Waiters had 5 boards tonight and the dope that started this thread to bash CJ must have missed the fact that he led the team in rebounds tonight.

You're happy with the way CJ has been attacking the glass?

 

[mark79]

Too many times recently I'm seeing Fab and various combinations SU forwards right there around the ball but a single GTown or other player grabs it. It's an effort/awareness issue more than a tactical one, imo.

This. Rebounding is about desire and effort. As we all know, a lot of effort is required before the shot comes off the rim. Our players do not fight for position well enough they more or less watch. I was getting sick last night watching Gtown get offensive rebound after offensive rebound. Ugh

 

[upperdeck]

they got the rebound advantage off the first 2-3 possessions after that it was an even game.. there were multiple times we have 2-3 guys under the rim and the ball went crazy long. we need to do better but every shot has a different reason for SU not getting the rebound and effort is not always the main one.

 

[edowd26]

I agree that it's everybody... No one agrees that he's the biggest issue on the glass?

no... not even a little bit. Kris is far worse, and southerland is the worst.

 

[Ghost]

He had 9 rebounds tonight. He's not our rebounding problem. Gottlieb made a great point about how our guards leak out every trip, leaving us to rebound 3 on 5 every defensive trip.

Gottlieb is right, there were far too many instances where everyone seemed to be leaking out though. Even CJ/Kris were too far outside leaving Fab alone underneath. Especially on long shots they all need to attack the boards more.

 

[kuethstheman]

they got the rebound advantage off the first 2-3 possessions after that it was an even game.. there were multiple times we have 2-3 guys under the rim and the ball went crazy long. we need to do better but every shot has a different reason for SU not getting the rebound and effort is not always the main one.

Lotsa times SU players weren't getting to the primary spots where shots come off. On baseline shots, no one went to the baseline on the opposite side. 3-4 uncontested boards for GTown when the shots went long. On elbow shots, seemed like they weren't going to the angle on the opposite side.

Aside from that, I think a few of our guys are slow to react. Especially KJ and CJ. Not a lack of willingness to battle, just that they hesitate. Remind me of Mookie Watson, in that regard.

 

[realorange]

If the original poster would look not only at last nights stats, but for the whole year, he'd find CJ is our top rebounder. As for his defense, he often gets beat by the corner man when the opponents overload the zone. It's tough for anyone to cover in those situations out of a zone defense.

 

[SmilinBob]

GT knows how to attack the zone and by attack offensive rebounding is part of it. They know the angles of the shots taken and where to go spot wise to be in the right position for an offensive rebound and at times it does coincide with some players leaking out but by far not all the time. If you could look at how they did this from above you'd notice how they attack the boards when each situation occurs such as jumping out at a shooter or the high/low pass and how the other forwards go to help and it frees the offensive rebounder. Other than Fab or let's just say the 5 position, SU is not getting the blocks like they were earlier but yet trying for them from their 4/3 positions and when they miss that slot opens up for the offensive rebound. That's not all of it but kids are getting beat for their spots as well. It's the nature of the beast playing the zone with two guys that 6'7" 6'6" with no girth, you're quick to the jumpers but you get hurt a bit inside. If you have a big guy playing 4 that can't jump out on the corner j we'd have a different problem but rebounding would improve.

 

[themorey]

GTown (sucks!) seemed to rebound OK from their zone. They just put more effort into it and wanted the rebounds more. Fab is almost always out of position for defensive rebounds because he is trying to swat each shot or take a charge. That means CJ and KJ have to collapse hard from the wings to box out and they're not doing a very good job of it, particularly KJ.

 

[RMH44]

I agree that it's everybody... No one agrees that he's the biggest issue on the glass?

If last night's rebounding performance was a one time occurrence, I wouldn't be worried. Problem is that it has become the norm. Rebounding is about positioning and tenacity. To blame a 17 rebound deficit on ONE player is way off base...especially considering we play zone.

Rebounding will always be an issue when playing zone exclusively. As JB has said, it's a trade-off...creating steals and turnovers while disrupting offensive flow -vs- average rebounding numbers. Unfortunately, we've been far from average (other than St. John's) lately. In games where the opponent uses most of the shot clock (ND, GU) of every possession, rebounding is an absolute necessity. We got lucky last night and, according to his pots game comments, I think JB feels the same way.

 

[OrangeMojo]

He had 9 rebounds tonight. He's not our rebounding problem. Gottlieb made a great point about how our guards leak out every trip, leaving us to rebound 3 on 5 every defensive trip.

CJ was absolutely brutal on both ends of the floor last night - he looked like he was either half asleep or wasn't really trying most of the time

He's one of my favorite players and I think he usually is a huge asset, but last night I was just thinking - what the hell does he need to do (or not do) to get the hook tonight?

 

[SmilinBob]

CJ was absolutely brutal on both ends of the floor last night - he looked like he was either half asleep or wasn't really trying most of the time

He's one of my favorite players and I think he usually is a huge asset, but last night I was just thinking - what the hell does he need to do (or not do) to get the hook tonight?

I've noticed that a lot of times when a kid plays a team from his area they sometimes play in a funk, offensively he was off no doubt but he fought his butt off on d.