Colgate thoughts

[General20]

Most of what I took away from this game happened on the offensive side of the ball.

This Syracuse squad, and all its new starters, has had a lot of learning to do in a short amount time thus far. It was clear to me when Syracuse played 2-3 zone throughout the exhibition games (they have always played man D in years past) that Boeheim knew they were not as game ready as they have been.

For the first three games of the season it looked like Syracuse hardly practiced anything on the offensive side of the ball. All their prep seemed to go into defense. This was especially clear whenever an opponent threw different defensive sets at Syracuse. Adjustments came slowly, as if all adjustments came in-game, and there was no pregame preparation.

Colgate played mostly zone but was not afraid to change from man to zone during the game. It did not seem to bother Syracuse in the least. Coleman, Christmas, Cooney and especially Carter-Williams had a much stronger idea of what their job was, no matter what Colgate did defensively.

Translation: the team is starting to gel on defense and is able to devote more practice time to the offense.

So, with three games of tape to analyze and enough practice time to get the team up to speed, what adjustments did Boeheim make?

The big one seemed to be giving Carter-Williams the keys to the offense.

A point guard in basketball is often compared to a quarterback in football. This is not always an apt comparison. In football the ball always goes through the quarterback and the quarterback always runs the offense. In basketball that is not always the case. Often times the point guard is nothing more than the guy who dribbles the ball up the court. The real offense goes through somebody else. This can no longer be said of Syracuse. Carter-Williams is our quarterback and, and at least in this game and I suspect in the future, all our offense goes through him.

I imagine that when Boeheim was going over the tape he could not help but notice the almost astonishing success rate Syracuse had when Carter-Williams initiated the offense. So in this game, Carter-Williams initiated everything. Every play started with him beating his man off the dribble and finding an open teammate.

The truly scary thing is, Colgate was in zone most of the time. Okay, I know they are Colgate and they suck, but when is the last time you saw anybody break a zone down off the dribble with the devastating efficiency that Carter-Williams did against Colgate? I can honestly say I dont remember anything quite like it and I've seen Syracuse play a lot of bad teams who have tried to use zone.

With the evidence we have to go on, initiating our offense with penetration from Carter-Williams seems like the right move. So lets take a look at the consequences of this move.

Number one, it turns Triche into more of a stand up jump shooter, which is not his strong suit. The good news is, when Syracuse plays more aggressive defenses (like they will see next game against Arkansas) Triche will have more opportunities to be aggressive.

However, if teams get smart and build their D around preventing Carter-Williams penetration - and eventually they will. Cooney might just have a bigger role to play in our offense than you think.

Right now the shots are just not falling for him but if he keeps getting looks like he did tonight, my money says they start to drop. Even though he went something like 0-7 from three, the way Syracuse played makes me think there might be a bigger role for him in the future than I previously thought (there is one caveat here, I dont expect Cooney to play much against Arkansas, whose press is going to force Boeheim to give Carter-Williams and Triche the majority of the minutes).

Number two, Fair plays more power forward, and Southrland gets more minutes. If your offense is going to be based on penetration you need to have proper spacing, and guys who can catch and finish under the basket. Southerland at the three is a must as far as spacing goes. First of all, he is our best player right now. Second, the pick and roll with Southerland and Carter-Williams is devastating. Syracuse can run it thirty times a game and I wont be upset.

Either Triche or Cooney at the shooting guard provides spacing because both need to be guarded beyond three.

This leaves two guys to hang out under the basket and wait for Carter-Williams to get them the ball. To me three guys will fill these two spots and the best three guys for the job are Fair, Christmas, and Coleman.

Christmas has really impressed me. Against Colgate he moved his game away from the basket for the first time in his short career and the results were mind blowingly successful. Add to that the fact that he is good for two or three alley-oops a game, and he is Syracuse's best shot blocker, and I see him getting a lot of time when it matters.

Coleman looked good too. Clearly having some time to practice offense was good for him. He has all the tools he needs, and I find it hard to believe he wont be a potent offensive threat by the end of the season. My question with him is on defense. He's not good enough right now. I'm far more excited to see how Coleman performs against Arkansas than anybody else. It will be a true test of how much he has improved.

Fair had a bad game against Colgate, but he always seems to play better in the uglier games. I suspect he will log big minutes and look good against Arkansas. I dont want to see him out by the three point line too much this year though. I wish he had worked harder on his mid range game and not so hard on improving from three.

A few other notes.

I think everybody on Syracuse had a bad night shooting the ball - even Southrland, whose numbers look good, missed a few wide open threes he wont often miss. The good news is with poor shooting across the board they managed to put up 87 points against a team playing mostly zone.

I expect the shooting to improve as more time is devoted to offense, and I think this is going to be one of Syracuse's best shooting teams ever. I expect the improvement to take place between now and New Year's, and Syracuse to go into the Big East season red hot from deep.

Jarami Grant is going to be a force in the zone. His length and athleticism is special even by Syracuse standards, and you could see him start to "get it" against Colgate. I dont think Grant plays much this year, but watch out next year.

Outside two quick mistakes by Christmas that caused him to get yanked early, Syracuse looked good on defense, but Colgate didn't offer much resistance other than throwing up a bunch of threes. Arkansas should provide a stiffer test for a defense that is yet to be tested.

Many people are worried about Carter-Williams ability to hold onto the ball against a press. He will likely see 40 minutes of pressure against Arkansas. Watch him closely. My guess is most people come away pleasantly surprised. I think Carter-Williams has the skills to shine against any press.

 

[billsin01]

Most of what I took away from this game happened on the offensive side of the ball ...

Lots of good info in here. I didn't get to see the game today so the feedback is much appreciated.

The only thoughts I have, generally since I didn't see the game, on your thoughts are these:

-- I've been pleasantly surprised with Xmas's game since he arrived (had very low expectations in that regard) and I love the idea that he could conceivably be a 3-4 year player who eventually is really good on both ends of the floor.

-- I'd argue Triche is fine as a stand-still shooter b/c I'm not overly excited about him driving to the basket that often. I think he can be solid in a shooter's role.

-- Southerland/Fair/Xmas will be the front line when it counts, if I had to guess, and I also feel like we'll see a healthy dose of keita.

 

[Gabjon]

I hope you are right because this post is a very "glass half full" post regarding future performance. I just re-watched the game and I am very concerned about CJ. He is either hurt or he has regressed. I think he might be hurt because he is not elevating, but regardless he needs to develop a right hand and it starts with his feet. The way he sets his feet he doesn't give himself the option to drive right without stopping to gather before going up. It doesn't work and everyone knows he is going left or he is going to stop to come back left.

 

[OttoMets]

I hope you are right because this post is a very "glass half full" post regarding future performance. I just re-watched the game and I am very concerned about CJ. He is either hurt or he has regressed. I think he might be hurt because he is not elevating, but regardless he needs to develop a right hand and it starts with his feet. The way he sets his feet he doesn't give himself the option to drive right without stopping to gather before going up. It doesn't work and everyone knows he is going left or he is going to stop to come back left.

Fair does like he might be a little hurt - he's not dunking a lot of opportunities that he usually does.

Good observation about his ability to go right (which is something I've been looking for). He's done it a little this season, but yesterday his stance was oriented to move left every time. Dunno what that's about; yesterday was the first time I've noticed that. He'll round into form, though; Fair's maybe the highest IQ guy out there and the last player to worry about.

 

[moqui]

-- Southerland/Fair/Xmas will be the front line when it counts, if I had to guess, and I also feel like we'll see a healthy dose of keita.

I think that the closing front court is eventually going to end up being Dirty and Rak at the forwards and DC2 at center (with an offense/defense switch between DC2 and BMK in close games).

 

[Gabjon]

I think that the closing front court is eventually going to end up being Dirty and Rak at the forwards and DC2 at center (with an offense/defense switch between DC2 and BMK in close games).

Agreed!

 

[reedny]

Lots of good points in this thread. TU General.

I agree that CJ is struggling. First, JS is playing lights out at SF right now, eating up lots of minutes. And second, CJ can't get as much pt at the PF spot as he had last year because of Rak's improved play there. It's hard on CJ, but it's a good problem to have for the team.

As for hamburger helper (MCW), wow. He's a force, and now that (as you put it) he's got the keys to the offense, the sky's the limit. All I can say is ... enjoy him while he's here.

For now, I think we'll see a lot of DC/Rak down low with JS playing the 3. CJ will start at SF so JB can bring JS off the bench for offense, but I think JS gets the lion's share of the SF minutes. CJ can also play PF (right now that's his comfort spot).

Cooney's dealing with game pressure, but he'll get used to it and his stroke will take over. His defense isn't bad either. He's got Hop's hussle and elan.

 

[JOC44]

I think that the closing front court is eventually going to end up being Dirty and Rak at the forwards and DC2 at center (with an offense/defense switch between DC2 and BMK in close games).

I suspect it will be Fair, Southerland, and Christmas.

In general, I think people are too down on Fair. In the one game against good competition this year, he was probably our best player. Boeheim values guys who don't make mistakes, which is why freshmen often get a lot of pine time. Fair is a smart player that will be on the court at the end of every close game.

 

[SoBristol]

...

-- I've been pleasantly surprised with Xmas's game since he arrived (had very low expectations in that regard) and I love the idea that he could conceivably be a 3-4 year player who eventually is really good on both ends of the floor.

-- I'd argue Triche is fine as a stand-still shooter b/c I'm not overly excited about him driving to the basket that often. I think he can be solid in a shooter's role.

-- Southerland/Fair/Xmas will be the front line when it counts, if I had to guess, and I also feel like we'll see a healthy dose of keita.

Have to take that Colgate game with a grain of salt. JB held Southerland out for most of the second half (and sat MCW so Cooney could get minutes with BT) because the game was already one-sided.

Your comment about the forwards/centers may apply right now but I would not carve it in stone. Coleman showed some abilities (rebounding and finishes) in that game -- he has a lot of upside, has a better offensive game than Rak, and could be real good as he makes the adjustment to tougher opponents. Think about how much Rak progressed last season -- Coleman is way ahead of that pace.

Triche and Southerland are an interesting pair. You mention BT as a spot up shooter, but in the Colgate game it was JS taking the long range shots from the top. Similar range and shot selection as Andy Rautins -- or perhaps Wes Johnson. Triche will continue getting the majority of his points on run-outs (finishing feeds from MCW), drives and pull-ups, and getting inside against smaller guards. Spot up shooting -- not really the big part of what BT can bring.

If you charted the shots, you might believe JS was our shooting guard.

 

[moqui]

I suspect it will be Fair, Southerland, and Christmas.

In general, I think people are too down on Fair. In the one game against good competition this year, he was probably our best player. Boeheim values guys who don't make mistakes, which is why freshmen often get a lot of pine time. Fair is a smart player that will be on the court at the end of every close game.

I don't think I'm "down" on him; in fact, I think I'm one of the few who have been consistently clear eyed on him. CJ is a solid player and a valuable contributor, but he doesn't have the ultimate talent level of those three guys. He is a kid who has learned to maximize his talent and so has always been closer to his ceiling, but the ceilings of Rak, DC2 and Southerland are all higher than his, IMHO. I believe that if everyone plays close to their max, then CJ is the 4th best frontcourt player. That's not a knock on him, it is a recognition of just how good & deep this year's collection of forwards and centers actually is.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't think I'm "down" on him; in fact, I think I'm one of the few who have been consistently clear eyed on him. CJ is a solid player and a valuable contributor, but he doesn't have the ultimate talent level of those three guys. He is a kid who has learned to maximize his talent and so has always been closer to his ceiling, but the ceilings of Rak, DC2 and Southerland are all higher than his, IMHO. I believe that if everyone plays close to their max, then CJ is the 4th best frontcourt player. That's not a knock on him, it is a recognition of just how good & deep this year's collection of forwards and centers actually is.

Interesting. You and I, in the minority, have been on the same page regarding South and Rak for some time. How would you rank the four of them in terms of ceiling? And what do you think Coleman's ceiling is? DeJuan Blair? Short of that?

 

[moqui]

Interesting. You and I, in the minority, have been on the same page regarding South and Rak for some time. How would you rank the four of them in terms of ceiling? And what do you think Coleman's ceiling is? DeJuan Blair? Short of that?

I haven't seen enough of DC with my own eyes to have a solid opinion. I don't think he is going to consistently put up numbers like Blair because of the depth of the team, but that might be a good comparison.

I think Dirty is going to have a terrific senior season, one that could rival what DNic did a few years back. I do think he is more athletic than DNic and so he will have more of a shot at an NBA career.

I actually think that Rak might have the highest ceiling of the four of them. He is just scratching the surface offensively, and he is fierce on the court. I thought it was a given that all three of Rak, DC and BMK would be back next year, but its possible that Rak could leave this year if he keeps up this pace throughout the season. Like MCW, he is an "old" sophomore - they are both 21 (Rak turns 21 next month), so they almost have to go this year if they have good seasons.

 

[OttoMets]

I haven't seen enough of DC with my own eyes to have a solid opinion. I don't think he is going to consistently put up numbers like Blair because of the depth of the team, but that might be a good comparison.

I think Dirty is going to have a terrific senior season, one that could rival what DNic did a few years back. I do think he is more athletic than DNic and so he will have more of a shot at an NBA career.

I actually think that Rak might have the highest ceiling of the four of them. He is just scratching the surface offensively, and he is fierce on the court. I thought it was a given that all three of Rak, DC and BMK would be back next year, but its possible that Rak could leave this year if he keeps up this pace throughout the season. Like MCW, he is an "old" sophomore - they are both 21 (Rak turns 21 next month), so they almost have to go this year if they have good seasons.

Damn, didn't realize Rak is so old. He's at the top of my list, but I'd hoped to have him for one more season. He can do everything out there. John Wallace with more defensive aptitude.

South's next. High ceiling, hope he continues to play well in all areas.

I've got Fair ahead of Coleman on the ranking of frontcourt guys; I just think Coleman's got a ton of work ahead of him. His form might need a complete retooling for his shot to fall consistently (like Scoop after his freshman year). His release is just so low, and that problem is compounded by his not being a leaper.

I see all of that as a positive, though. Freshman centers are usually not very productive at Syracuse. It'd be great to have the benefit of a sophomore Coleman coming back to school with a whole year's worth of experience. He could be a dominant college big in his second year.

 

[Knicks411]

Interesting. You and I, in the minority, have been on the same page regarding South and Rak for some time. How would you rank the four of them in terms of ceiling? And what do you think Coleman's ceiling is? DeJuan Blair? Short of that?

I feel bad for jumping into this conversation because for a variety of reasons, I've seen only bits and pieces of the games so far this year. But I've been a huge fan of Rak coming into this season, though a little less so for James. But Blair was an absolutely dominant college player, so I would have to say Coleman's ceiling is probably below that. But like I said, I saw nearly all of the Sd State game and not much else.

 

[JOC44]

I don't think I'm "down" on him; in fact, I think I'm one of the few who have been consistently clear eyed on him. CJ is a solid player and a valuable contributor, but he doesn't have the ultimate talent level of those three guys. He is a kid who has learned to maximize his talent and so has always been closer to his ceiling, but the ceilings of Rak, DC2 and Southerland are all higher than his, IMHO. I believe that if everyone plays close to their max, then CJ is the 4th best frontcourt player. That's not a knock on him, it is a recognition of just how good & deep this year's collection of forwards and centers actually is.

That's the beauty of debates like this. It's an objective question -- who will be on the floor at the end of close games. We will soon find out, but I'll be surprised if Boeheim sits his smartest frontcourt player at the end of games.

 

[Gabjon]

I haven't seen enough of DC with my own eyes to have a solid opinion. I don't think he is going to consistently put up numbers like Blair because of the depth of the team, but that might be a good comparison.

I think Dirty is going to have a terrific senior season, one that could rival what DNic did a few years back. I do think he is more athletic than DNic and so he will have more of a shot at an NBA career.

I actually think that Rak might have the highest ceiling of the four of them. He is just scratching the surface offensively, and he is fierce on the court. I thought it was a given that all three of Rak, DC and BMK would be back next year, but its possible that Rak could leave this year if he keeps up this pace throughout the season. Like MCW, he is an "old" sophomore - they are both 21 (Rak turns 21 next month), so they almost have to go this year if they have good seasons.

Where do you put Grant on this list of ceilings? With is wing span, handle, and jumper I think his ceiling is the highest of all of them. Jerami is only 18! DC2 is 20, Rak is 21 next month, Fair 21 and James 22.

 

[moqui]

Where do you put Grant on this list of ceilings? With is wing span, handle, and jumper I think his ceiling is the highest of all of them. Jerami is only 18! DC2 is 20, Rak is 21 next month, Fair 21 and James 22.

I think it is probably pretty high, but I honestly haven't seen enough of him to say.

 

[OttoMets]

Where do you put Grant on this list of ceilings? With is wing span, handle, and jumper I think his ceiling is the highest of all of them. Jerami is only 18! DC2 is 20, Rak is 21 next month, Fair 21 and James 22.

I'm surprised at how old so many of these non-prep guys are (though Rakeem didn't move to this country until he was like 10, I think, so that's understandable). How does a traditional high school student become a 20-year-old freshman?

Anyway, Grant is really impressive. I don't know that he'll ever have the build to be a four, but he seems like he has a capable enough handle to play the three. And it's been awhile since I've seen a Syracuse freshman who's so good at protecting the ball with his body and consistently making contested layups. Through four games, he's already light-years ahead of Coleman in that regard, and I don't know that he's missed a shot from under the hoop.

Hopes should be high for that one.

 

[Gabjon]

I'm surprised at how old so many of these non-prep guys are (though Rakeem didn't move to this country until he was like 10, I think, so that's understandable). How does a traditional high school student become a 20-year-old freshman?

Anyway, Grant is really impressive. I don't know that he'll ever have the build to be a four, but he seems like he has a capable enough handle to play the three. And it's been awhile since I've seen a Syracuse freshman who's so good at protecting the ball with his body and consistently making contested layups. Through four games, he's already light-years ahead of Coleman in that regard, and I don't know that he's missed a shot from under the hoop.

Hopes should be high for that one.

Kids are held back intentionally for basketball reasons. It allows them to be bigger and stronger than most kids they play against with the hope of making a quick splash in college and off to the NBA. Personally I think it is dumb and the kids would be better served sitting on a college bench for a year or RSing its the same thing really but the kid would be in a college weight room taking college classes. Now what kids are doing is when the get there name out there and are hyped they they reclassify back to there original grade.

As for Grant I love his game! A year in the weight room and he will be a monster. I know DC2 has lost a ton of weight but he needs to lose more. He needs to be faster with everything he does without trying to go fast.