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Message: [QUOTE="CuseOnly, post: 1817107, member: 2804"] We aren't arguing semantics. You said that you didn't see effort from the kids under Shafer and you would be wrong. If you want to say that the team was still bad despite the effort given, I would agree with you based on the record at the end of the season. Not once in Shafer's tenure did I see a lack of effort. We were giving effort from start to finish, just because you lose a game doesn't mean you didn't give your best effort to win. If you don't give a what the reason is, then don't give an incorrect one (effort) as the basis of your statement. Watching SU football under Gerg was torture, under Marrone was nowhere near torture, we had some good teams and as a matter of fact some over-achieving teams. Under Shafer was just not good football but the effort was there. [/QUOTE]