Contrast Shamarko's treatment as a Steeler with Jonathan Martin's as a Dolphin

[Orangeyes]

So glad our Sham-wow landed where he did!

Too bad Martin's experience in the NFL has been so negative:

“They take me in like a little brother and it’s blessing because as a rookie you don’t expect it from the veterans,” Thomas said, “but these veterans here show so much love. I sit beside them in the meetings. They teach me everything, stuff I don’t know and things I need to get better on.”

Shamarko Thomas a hit for Steelers

 

[FAL]

Nice article--thanks!

 

[richard levy]

Some of Martin's problems are that he dosen't fit the sterotype. He's a smart ( private high school, Stanford, classics major) african-american with affluent parents, dosen't share the same background as most of the black and white players in the NFL. Dolphins more supportive of a thug like Incognito.

 

[Stern]

Until Martin speaks and can back up some of his claims (like being beat up by a teammate), I'm not buying a lot of what he is saying. Martin sounds like he might have some Social Anxiety disorder stuff or other issues. One day he laughing at the racist voicemail and playing it for all to hear, then a few months later using it as evidence and crying wolf. Something doesn't add up. His story doesn't add up.

 

[dasher]

Until Martin speaks and can back up some of his claims (like being beat up by a teammate), I'm not buying a lot of what he is saying. Martin sounds like he might have some Social Anxiety disorder stuff or other issues. One day he laughing at the racist voicemail and playing it for all to hear, then a few months later using it as evidence and crying wolf. Something doesn't add up. His story doesn't add up.

Did you see the transcript of the message that Incognito sent him? Looking at the history of the two men involved, my best guess would be to believe Martin.

 

[Eric15]

Until Martin speaks and can back up some of his claims (like being beat up by a teammate), I'm not buying a lot of what he is saying. Martin sounds like he might have some Social Anxiety disorder stuff or other issues. One day he laughing at the racist voicemail and playing it for all to hear, then a few months later using it as evidence and crying wolf. Something doesn't add up. His story doesn't add up.

I want to wait and see how things play out, but I think it's interesting that you're giving the benefit of the doubt to the guy who has been recorded and videotaped using deplorably violent and racist language, is considered the dirtiest player in the NFL and has been in trouble EVERYWHERE he's been over the past decade, and not giving the benefit of the doubt to the Stanford graduate who has never been in trouble once.

 

[Stern]

Did you see the transcript of the message that Incognito sent him? Looking at the history of the two men involved, my best guess would be to believe Martin.

I saw the transcript. I also heard multiple players say Martin was laughing about voicemail running around the locker-room playing it for everyone and cracking jokes with people about it. Having fun with it. Doesn't add up!

And being SYRACUSE fans you would think we all wouldn't rush to judgment. I mean we heard a voicemail with Laurie Fine, was that a smoking gun in the end? NOPE!! Was the voicemail played out of context? YEP! Was what the media reported all truth? NOPE! Gotta wait and see how this plays out before you label Incognito the worlds worst human. Context is everything, was there a beginning and end to that voicemail (which there was it was ..."wassup" and ended with "talk with ya later"... giving context that he may have been goofing around with him. Weird way to goof around, but if that was the context of there friendship makes the voicemail less damaging. Like I said, none of this adds up and gotta wait and see with some of this stuff.

 

[Stern]

I want to wait and see how things play out, but I think it's interesting that you're giving the benefit of the doubt to the guy who has been recorded and videotaped using deplorably violent and racist language, is considered the dirtiest player in the NFL and has been in trouble EVERYWHERE he's been over the past decade, and not giving the benefit of the doubt to the Stanford graduate who has never been in trouble once.

Facts the media hasn't covered. After the Pats loss the week this happened Martin had an emotional breakdown on the plane ride home because of his poor play in that game, that Martin lost his starting left tackle job that week as well and was moved to the right side as a "demotion" because of his poor play, that people close to Martin had mentioned he had suicidal thoughts last offseason. NOBODY is defending Incognito. He doesn't belong in the NFL anymore and should be punished for his actions. Martin's camp has done a nice job painting him as a monster which wasn't hard. What needs to be looked at Martin though. I'm sorry one racist voicemail doesn't cause a player to quit and leave their NFL job, doesn't add up. Martin is now claiming another teammate beat him up...who? When? Why was it never reported? Why not name him since you already named Incognito? It doesn't add up. Martin needs to back up some of these claims. YES, the voicemail...point for Martin. What else though? If that's it that's pretty damn weak for his case! Sorry but it is

 

[Eric15]

One day he laughing at the racist voicemail and playing it for all to hear, then a few months later using it as evidence and crying wolf. Something doesn't add up. His story doesn't add up.

I think this adds up very reasonably. It doesn't surprise me at all that he would initially laugh at the voice mail - it's a defense mechanism to try and suppress the fact that the situation was bothering him, and an effort to try and fit in with his teammates. Then he ultimately reached his breaking point where he just couldn't handle the harassment anymore.

Again, I want to want and see how the investigation plays out, but I would estimate the chances of Martin being in the wrong here at about 5%.

 

[dasher]

I saw the transcript. I also heard multiple players say Martin was laughing about voicemail running around the locker-room playing it for everyone and cracking jokes with people about it. Having fun with it. Doesn't add up!

And being SYRACUSE fans you would think we all wouldn't rush to judgment. I mean we heard a voicemail with Laurie Fine, was that a smoking gun in the end? NOPE!! Was the voicemail played out of context? YEP! Was what the media reported all truth? NOPE! Gotta wait and see how this plays out before you label Incognito the worlds worst human. Context is everything, was there a beginning and end to that voicemail (which there was it was ..."wassup" and ended with "talk with ya later"... giving context that he may have been goofing around with him. Weird way to goof around, but if that was the context of there friendship makes the voicemail less damaging. Like I said, none of this adds up and gotta wait and see with some of this stuff.

We don't have all the facts yet, true. But what facts we do have, all point to Incognito being a first class @sshole. Nothing points to martin like that. You say it sounds to you like Martin might have a social society disorder? I don't know your medical training background to reach such a conclusion. I played high school football against a kid that made it to the NFL. He was 6-6 280. He went to an ivy league school. He quit the nfl without the fanfare of Martin because he couldn't stand the culture. And as I recall, you thought Fine was guilty on the tape alone.

 

[Stern]

Jonathan Martin sent a text to Incognito..."I am going to murder your whole family". Which prompted Richie to send the voicemail he sent

More details coming out

 

[OburgOrange]

Ditka called Martin a " baby" on ESPN this morning and said there is no way he would have him on his team.

 

[Stern]

From the Glazer interview, Glazer has 1,142 texts between Martin and Richie in the past year. With racist talk going BOTH ways. Martin was dishing it out.

Martin's story is blowing up in his face. Tough to cry you were bullied when you were sending racists texts and pulling pranks on teammates.

 

[dasher]

From the Glazer interview, Glazer has 1,142 texts between Martin and Richie in the past year. With racist talk going BOTH ways. Martin was dishing it out.

Martin's story is blowing up in his face. Tough to cry you were bullied when you were sending racists texts and pulling pranks on teammates.

blowing up in his face? How many victims of abuse have you met? There are always stuff like this. The abused tries to fit in. There are a lot of different reactions to being bullied. Sometimes the abused identifies with the bully. Sometimes they don't.

 

[Stern]

blowing up in his face? How many victims of abuse have you met? There are always stuff like this. The abused tries to fit in. There are a lot of different reactions to being bullied. Sometimes the abused identifies with the bully. Sometimes they don't.

Oh please, 1,142 texts back and forth and Martin faught back with racists texts of his own. Sorry, not buying the Martin was bullied nonsense anymore.

 

[dasher]

Oh please, 1,142 texts back and forth and Martin faught back with racists texts of his own. Sorry, not buying the Martin was bullied nonsense anymore.

you never did buy it. I wonder why? On the way hand, you have a guy from a good family that went to a great school and has never had a problem. On the other, we have a guy that was tossed out of football schools (how big a jerk does he have to be) and has a terrible reputation. And, the team that knows him better than either you or me, suspends him and leaks out word that he will never play for them again. What do they know that we don't? It's not hard to see who the creep is. I just wonder why you can't tell the difference? Also, I just read the espn story on incognito claims. No where did it say that he actually had the emails that were sent by martin. Didn't see it anywhere that he didn't have them either. Would be interesting to know if there are actually emails from martin.

 

[CuseOnly]

you never did buy it. I wonder why? On the way hand, you have a guy from a good family that went to a great school and has never had a problem. On the other, we have a guy that was tossed out of football schools (how big a jerk does he have to be) and has a terrible reputation. And, the team that knows him better than either you or me, suspends him and leaks out word that he will never play for them again. What do they know that we don't? It's not hard to see who the creep is. I just wonder why you can't tell the difference?

Pretty early on for anyone to be making any real conclusions. The hazing, bullying or whatever did not just show up in the NFL locker rooms or environment. This stuff starts in middle school and continues all the way up through college. My question is that if Martin was such a standoffish person, why hadn't he been bothered by this behavior in the locker room up to this point? Even in the case where he saw it going on but wasn't a part as it was happening to others. Or was participating when it was happening to others and did nothing.

Trust me, he has seen or participated in this same type of behavior before. Why blow a gasket now I guess is the question unless there may be something to gain?

 

[dasher]

I am starting to feel bad for incognito. Turns out he got in a fight with a bouncer at club liv. Tape shows incognito throwing the first punch. He must have been really provoked. And then he was accused of harassment against a woman who was working as a volunteer at a golf tournament. Police were called and their were witnesses. The Dolphins apoligized to the woman. A good guy that bad luck seems to chase around.

 

[dasher]

Pretty early on for anyone to be making any real conclusions. The hazing, bullying or whatever did not just show up in the NFL locker rooms or environment. This stuff starts in middle school and continues all the way up through college. My question is that if Martin was such a standoffish person, why hadn't he been bothered by this behavior in the locker room up to this point? Even in the case where he saw it going on but wasn't a part as it was happening to others. Or was participating when it was happening to others and did nothing.

Trust me, he has seen or participated in this same type of behavior before. Why blow a gasket now I guess is the question unless there may be something to gain?

who knows? Who cares? So if a person puts up with bullying it is fair to wonder why they wouldn't put up with it anymore. People reach breaking points. Happens all the time in all kinds of relationships. I don't know what happened here. But I do know, based on his checkered history, Incognito is trash. More than enough evidence for that.

 

[Stern]

I just read the espn story on incognito claims. No where did it say that he actually had the emails that were sent by martin. Didn't see it anywhere that he didn't have them either. Would be interesting to know if there are actually emails from martin.

1) not emails
2) Jay Glazer has all of the text messages, 1,142 and reported what was said LIVE today on the FOX pregame show. He reported Martin sent countless vulgar and racist texts to Richie

 

[Stern]

Trust me, he has seen or participated in this same type of behavior before. Why blow a gasket now I guess is the question unless there may be something to gain?

His mommy and daddy are big lawyers and his mommy deals with "harassment in the workplace" law as her specialty. So he ran to them after he lost his job as starting left tackle and cried and this is what they decided to do. Because there little Johnny boy couldn't just lose his job it had to be more

 

[dasher]

His mommy and daddy are big lawyers and his mommy deals with "harassment in the workplace" law as her specialty. So he ran to them after he lost his job as starting left tackle and cried and this is what they decided to do. Because there little Johnny boy couldn't just lose his job it had to be more

Do you find it at all ironic that you don't believe that martin was bullied and yet when you get a email or two that you don't like, you complain to board admins? I'm not saying you should or shouldn't have but it is ironic. And the mommy and daddy comments are pretty low.

 

[Stern]

Do you find it at all ironic that you don't believe that martin was bullied and yet when you get a email or two that you don't like, you complain to board admins? I'm not saying you should or shouldn't have but it is ironic. And the mommy and daddy comments are pretty low.

That is a terrible analogy. I was receiving multiple vulgar/threatening PM's from a member here. I reported it. That's where it ended. If I went back and forth, sunk to his level with the same type of language and such...then it would be ironic. But I didn't. I took the high road.

This situation is not bullying. Martin and his lawyer made a claim, it blew up in their face today. His lawyer right now is on Twitter tonight trying to spin this already. They can't call Incognito a racist and a bully when Martin himself was using the same racist language and being a bully to Incognito in return. It's not gonna fly. Because then it comes down to..."who started it" and who started with this language and conversation. And either way, Martin's claim as an innocent little victim is incorrect. He wasn't and isn't. He ran to his mommy and daddy who are lawyers, they hired another super famous/rich lawyer and here is where we are today. If Martin is gonna make claims he has to back them up. Period. So far he has done a poor job in backing up all of his claims.

 

[dasher]

That is a terrible analogy. I was receiving multiple vulgar/threatening PM's from a member here. I reported it. That's where it ended. If I went back and forth, sunk to his level with the same type of language and such...then it would be ironic. But I didn't. I took the high road.

This situation is not bullying. Martin and his lawyer made a claim, it blew up in their face today. His lawyer right now is on Twitter tonight trying to spin this already. They can't call Incognito a racist and a bully when Martin himself was using the same racist language and being a bully to Incognito in return. It's not gonna fly. Because then it comes down to..."who started it" and who started with this language and conversation. And either way, Martin's claim as an innocent little victim is incorrect. He wasn't and isn't. He ran to his mommy and daddy who are lawyers, they hired another super famous/rich lawyer and here is where we are today. If Martin is gonna make claims he has to back them up. Period. So far he has done a poor job in backing up all of his claims.

you have such venom for the guy without knowing the whole story. Let me ask you this. Just from what you know right now, who is the better person, Martin or Incognito? Don't spin it. Simple answer. If you were on a jury and could just believe either one of them about anything, who would you believe? I ask because I noticed you didn't respond at all to the other problems richie has had this year. You reacted differently with orangepa, a person you don't see every day at work. Your handling would have been much different if you saw each other every day. You didn't seem to have a problem with davis getting a super rich lawyer as I remember it.

 

[CuseOnly]

you have such venom for the guy without knowing the whole story. Let me ask you this. Just from what you know right now, who is the better person, Martin or Incognito? Don't spin it. Simple answer. If you were on a jury and could just believe either one of them about anything, who would you believe? I ask because I noticed you didn't respond at all to the other problems richie has had this year. You reacted differently with orangepa, a person you don't see every day at work. Your handling would have been much different if you saw each other every day. You didn't seem to have a problem with davis getting a super rich lawyer as I remember it.

I am not picking sides either way, just saying that nobody knows anything about Martin and a lot of what Incognito has done is public. Before all is said and done with this fiasco, we will know a whole lot more about Martin and that he is not as squeaky clean as some would like to believe, nobody is.