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Cooney

TBCuse11

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Ive been away for a few days, but as one of the biggest Cooney critics on here, I have to admit I am thrilled to see him taking the ball to the hoop more and handling the rock more. This has started to make him a much more dangerous player. I almost like the team MORE when he is the PG and Joseph is the SG. Kaleb is a poor man's Johnny Flynn. Give him time, he will be great.

For this year though, i really hope that in crunch time we have G up top with Cooney and Roberson or BJ at the 3.

Keep it up Trevor...
 
Ive been away for a few days, but as one of the biggest Cooney critics on here, I have to admit I am thrilled to see him taking the ball to the hoop more and handling the rock more. This has started to make him a much more dangerous player. I almost like the team MORE when he is the PG and Joseph is the SG. Kaleb is a poor man's Johnny Flynn. Give him time, he will be great.

For this year though, i really hope that in crunch time we have G up top with Cooney and Roberson or BJ at the 3.

Keep it up Trevor...

Yes, the team needs Cooney to be driving more and doing a share of the ball-handling, as he did against Villanova. He isn't a PG, and he won't be the one beating the press (La Tech was an exception), but he needs to contribute to ball-handling and distribution as most SGs do. Kaleb isn't Ennis -- he needs Cooney and Gbinije to do a larger share of ball-handling and initiating the offense.
And, yes Kaleb will be very good. He is figuring things out. He needs to get stronger, but even this year, he needs to be on the floor most of the time.
 
Ive been away for a few days, but as one of the biggest Cooney critics on here, I have to admit I am thrilled to see him taking the ball to the hoop more and handling the rock more. This has started to make him a much more dangerous player. I almost like the team MORE when he is the PG and Joseph is the SG. Kaleb is a poor man's Johnny Flynn. Give him time, he will be great.

For this year though, i really hope that in crunch time we have G up top with Cooney and Roberson or BJ at the 3.

Keep it up Trevor...

Agree. I have been critical too, but the last couple of games he has proved his worth. His stats are actually quite good, except for 3 PT shooting, which is improving. JB will not move him from the SG spot, nor should he.
 
Yes, the team needs Cooney to be driving more and doing a share of the ball-handling, as he did against Villanova. He isn't a PG, and he won't be the one beating the press (La Tech was an exception), but he needs to contribute to ball-handling and distribution as most SGs do. Kaleb isn't Ennis -- he needs Cooney and Gbinije to do a larger share of ball-handling and initiating the offense.
And, yes Kaleb will be very good. He is figuring things out. He needs to get stronger, but even this year, he needs to be on the floor most of the time.
What we are going to see is KJ as the primary with TC acting as his shadow until they get to half court. TC will be there to bail him out and if desperate we will also use the small forward. On the plus side, this eliminates most of our turnovers and allows us to fend off the press that KJ attracts. On the negative side, this slows us down for setting up in the half court. It is a defensive measure to cover up our ball handling weakness but it slows down our 1/2 court offense.
 
The last few games Coondawg has been a complete player and doing the things he should be doing given his leadership position on the team and the minutes he plays. Frankly, the team needs this kind of play desperately going forward and that includes TC playing some point.
 
What we are going to see is KJ as the primary with TC acting as his shadow until they get to half court. TC will be there to bail him out and if desperate we will also use the small forward. On the plus side, this eliminates most of our turnovers and allows us to fend off the press that KJ attracts. On the negative side, this slows us down for setting up in the half court. It is a defensive measure to cover up our ball handling weakness but it slows down our 1/2 court offense.

What we saw against Nova's pressure was something different than what you describe. KJ usually got the ball to G in the backcourt. Cooney cleared out, over the half court line, taking his defender with him. G often tried to pass over the press to CMac in the middle.
It is a good strategy, using G's ball handling and height.
 
Yes, the team needs Cooney to be driving more and doing a share of the ball-handling, as he did against Villanova. He isn't a PG, and he won't be the one beating the press (La Tech was an exception), but he needs to contribute to ball-handling and distribution as most SGs do. Kaleb isn't Ennis -- he needs Cooney and Gbinije to do a larger share of ball-handling and initiating the offense.
And, yes Kaleb will be very good. He is figuring things out. He needs to get stronger, but even this year, he needs to be on the floor most of the time.

Sorry but I can not agree, until or unless he improves his handle greatly, he may never be a good point, his lack of handle is his biggest problem and the one that is hardest to correct. He spends so much attention on handling the ball his court vision suffers. I wish it were not so, but he has a major problem being a point.
 
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What we saw against Nova's pressure was something different than what you describe. KJ usually got the ball to G in the backcourt. Cooney cleared out, over the half court line, taking his defender with him. G often tried to pass over the press to CMac in the middle.
It is a good strategy, using G's ball handling and height.
Exactly. In order to bring the ball up he has to be shadowed by other ball handlers that he can pass to.
 
"Hey! I've got a Jonny Flynn!"
512x.jpg
 
Sorry but I can not agree, until or unless he improves his handle greatly, he will never be a good point, his lack of handle is his biggest problem and the one that is hardest to correct. He spends so much attention on handling the ball his court vision suffers. I wish it were not so, but he has a major problem being a point.
I would like to revisit this post next year, and then again in Kaleb's junior season. "Never" is a long time. Kaleb is skinny - that will change year to year and it will make a big difference. His handle as a frosh is below average for a PG. He will work on it and get a lot better.

For now, he needs to have his 2G provide the support that 2Gs usually do -- Cooney has not been comfortable putting the ball on the floor, but in the past 5 games he is adding that dimension. And, the team needs Gbinije to initiate plays to supplement what the guards are capable of doing.
 
I would like to revisit this post next year, and then again in Kaleb's junior season. "Never" is a long time. Kaleb is skinny - that will change year to year and it will make a big difference. His handle as a frosh is below average for a PG. He will work on it and get a lot better.

For now, he needs to have his 2G provide the support that 2Gs usually do -- Cooney has not been comfortable putting the ball on the floor, but in the past 5 games he is adding that dimension. And, the team needs Gbinije to initiate plays to supplement what the guards are capable of doing.

I'll add this. The very perceptive watcher may see that his handle isn't the issue as much as his indicisiveness and lack of court vision are. If Joseph is here for 4 years he will be top 4 in assists as he is going to be around 5/6 per while struggling as a freshman.
 
I would like to revisit this post next year, and then again in Kaleb's junior season. "Never" is a long time. Kaleb is skinny - that will change year to year and it will make a big difference. His handle as a frosh is below average for a PG. He will work on it and get a lot better.

For now, he needs to have his 2G provide the support that 2Gs usually do -- Cooney has not been comfortable putting the ball on the floor, but in the past 5 games he is adding that dimension. And, the team needs Gbinije to initiate plays to supplement what the guards are capable of doing.

You do know what the words until or unless mean do you not? I did not say it was not possible, therefore the never is qualified by him improving his handle. He is not now and MAY never be good at handling the ball. It is the one thing that is truly essential to the point guard position. Most points have this skill before arriving at college, and it is other things that need to be developed before they become starters. Joseph, as well as those other things, must also improve his handle, difficult but not impossible at this stage of his career.
Your comment was inane given the content and meaning of my original post.
 
I'll add this. The very perceptive watcher may see that his handle isn't the issue as much as his indicisiveness and lack of court vision are. If Joseph is here for 4 years he will be top 4 in assists as he is going to be around 5/6 per while struggling as a freshman.
I will counter by saying I believe his indecisiveness is caused partly by his poor ball control ability at this level. He is continually looking at the ball when handling, this affects his court vision and ability to make decisions because he must devote too much attention to handling the ball. The good to great points I have observed over the years almost never have to actually watch the ball, it is often said they have the ball on a string. Joseph is not even close to this as yet, I certainly hope he improves but am not seeing that at this point.
As to the very perceptive watcher part, I presume that means you. It looses some of its meaning when you are talking about yourself. I would never dare to say I am more perceptive than any other poster but there it is. My comments are only my observations and opinions, take them or leave them as you please.
 
I will counter by saying I believe his indecisiveness is caused partly by his poor ball control ability at this level. He is continually looking at the ball when handling, this affects his court vision and ability to make decisions because he must devote too much attention to handling the ball. The good to great points I have observed over the years almost never have to actually watch the ball, it is often said they have the ball on a string. Joseph is not even close to this as yet, I certainly hope he improves but am not seeing that at this point.
As to the very perceptive watcher part, I presume that means you. It looses some of its meaning when you are talking about yourself. I would never dare to say I am more perceptive than any other poster but there it is. My comments are only my observations and opinions, take them or leave them as you please.

I can see how "perceptive" may come off wrong. Not meant to be a put down nor to reference me as much as pointing out that there is a difference in identifying something you see as an issue and identifying the reason that particular thing is an issue.

As far as handle look back on this board and you will see it was a major concern here early on with almost every PG we have fielded since Jonny. (Jonny was the proverbial ball on a string guy) I recall reading things like Scoop was way too loose, Brandon is shaky against pressure, MCW's is too high and there were even questions about Tyler's handle coming in last season. It's a natural concern as a fan that we have a trustworthy ball handler at the PG spot. These guys all played at least some PG in highschool and where recruited highly so obviously they could dribble there way around without issue before coming to college. PG is a decision making position but the best PG's don't ever seem to be wasting time thinking they play more instinctively or look for certain keys and already know what they will do when they see them. It takes a majority of PG's in college even good ones quite a while to get to the point where the thought process doesn't slow them down IMO. The more they struggle with the thought process the slower they make decisions and it becomes much easier for the defense to victimize them by taking the ball are intercepting the pass. I've seen Joseph make excellent high difficult dribbling maneuvers in traffic without a worry when his mind has moved on because he's already made the decision to go. He makes spin dribbles, changes hands, goes between the legs and crosses over with ease. I do feel his left hand lags behind his right a bit more than normal and he predominantly drives right but that may also be more about his level of comfort or lack there of at this point. I think I said "court vision" the first time but "court awareness" is more accurate because Joseph at times shows very good court vision when setting up a teammate. It's the lack of awareness that often gets him into trouble with the bounce IMO. When you are thinking so hard about what you need to be doing you are spending less time observing where all the defenders are and where they are moving or will be. The other thing is the indecisiveness. The hesitation when the play is there that that puts him at a disadvantage and allows the defense to close on not just him but his intended target for a pass. In basketball driving and passing lanes don't stay open for long so hesitating often equates to having to force something that isn't there or abandon it. Even when being pressured you can almost see Joseph's thought process at this point where as Cooney just goes. Kaleb thinks too much which in turn allows the defense to close and then dictate his direction or where he has to go with the ball making him a predictable easy target. I'm not saying Kaleb has the best handles ever just that its not his major issue right now and with decisiveness and better court awareness (more experience less thinking) he will look faster and be able to keep the defenders off balance enough that it will rarely be an issue. Not to mention guys do improve there handle as they progress.

In the end I agree all of our comments are observations and opinions but when posted on the board they also become fair game for comment. I think you will be pleased with Kaleb in another 10 games or so, just my opinion.
 
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You do know what the words until or unless mean do you not? I did not say it was not possible, therefore the never is qualified by him improving his handle. He is not now and MAY never be good at handling the ball. It is the one thing that is truly essential to the point guard position. Most points have this skill before arriving at college, and it is other things that need to be developed before they become starters. Joseph, as well as those other things, must also improve his handle, difficult but not impossible at this stage of his career.
Your comment was inane given the content and meaning of my original post.
When you combine "until and unless" with "never" -- you are advancing a very negative assessment of Kaleb's potential as a PG. No? Is that not what you have said in two posts? "MAY never ..." Sorry, I disagree with you. He is a young, skinny frosh who is contributing right away (many young guards sit the bench their first season -- MCW as a recent example). He will get much better in all parts of the game (handle included) as he gets stronger. We have seen it often -- see Andy Rautins' development.
 
No your interpretation is wrong, apparently you have a reading comprehension problem.

I'm not learned in reading comprehension but looking at your OP again its possible for the second bracketed by commas statement to be taken on its own, I would think. Look:

"Sorry but I can not agree, until or unless he improves his handle greatly, he will never be a good point, his lack of handle is his biggest problem and the one that is hardest to correct. He spends so much attention on handling the ball his court vision suffers. I wish it were not so, but he has a major problem being a point."

Obviously the first bracketed by commas section (italics) seems to relate to not agreeing with the post you quoted. In this case is it not possible someone could then interpret the second bracketed by commas section (bold) to be a stand alone statement voicing your own related but separate opinion? I mean sure it could also read that it is an addendum to the first bracketed by commas section (italics) but I don't think its bad reading comprehension to see it as a stand alone related opinion either. Considering the rest of that post in context it could almost makes more sense that everything after the initial ITALICS section is a separate but topically relative opinion. Again I am certainly no English expert.
 
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I can see how "perceptive" may come off wrong. Not meant to be a put down nor to reference me as much as pointing out that there is a difference in identifying something you see as an issue and identifying the reason that particular thing is an issue.

As far as handle look back on this board and you will see it was a major concern here early on with almost every PG we have fielded since Jonny. (Jonny was the proverbial ball on a string guy) I recall reading things like Scoop was way too loose, Brandon is shaky against pressure, MCW's is too high and there were even questions about Tyler's handle coming in last season. It's a natural concern as a fan that we have a trustworthy ball handler at the PG spot. These guys all played at least some PG in highschool and where recruited highly so obviously they could dribble there way around without issue before coming to college. PG is a decision making position but the best PG's don't ever seem to be wasting time thinking they play more instinctively or look for certain keys and already know what they will do when they see them. It takes a majority of PG's in college even good ones quite a while to get to the point where the thought process doesn't slow them down IMO. The more they struggle with the thought process the slower they make decisions and it becomes much easier for the defense to victimize them by taking the ball are intercepting the pass. I've seen Joseph make excellent high difficult dribbling maneuvers in traffic without a worry when his mind has moved on because he's already made the decision to go. He makes spin dribbles, changes hands, goes between the legs and crosses over with ease. I do feel his left hand lags behind his right a bit more than normal and he predominantly drives right but that may also be more about his level of comfort or lack there of at this point. I think I said "court vision" the first time but "court awareness" is more accurate because Joseph at times shows very good court vision when setting up a teammate. It's the lack of awareness that often gets him into trouble with the bounce IMO. When you are thinking so hard about what you need to be doing you are spending less time observing where all the defenders are and where they are moving or will be. The other thing is the indecisiveness. The hesitation when the play is there that that puts him at a disadvantage and allows the defense to close on not just him but his intended target for a pass. In basketball driving and passing lanes don't stay open for long so hesitating often equates to having to force something that isn't there or abandon it. Even when being pressured you can almost see Joseph's thought process at this point where as Cooney just goes. Kaleb thinks too much which in turn allows the defense to close and then dictate his direction or where he has to go with the ball making him a predictable easy target. I'm not saying Kaleb has the best handles ever just that its not his major issue right now and with decisiveness and better court awareness (more experience less thinking) he will look faster and be able to keep the defenders off balance enough that it will rarely be an issue. Not to mention guys do improve there handle as they progress.

Having watched every player that has come through our program since Bing and Boeheim, I disagree. I am not saying he can not develope, just that he has further to go than you seem to think. I have seen him turn the ball over against minimal pressure, but disregarding that he often is looking at the ball while dribbling, and that is problematic. He often picks up his dribble with no place to go with the ball, this too gets him in trouble. I have nothing against him, he is just not as far along the point guard curve as I would have thought, and has further to work on than I expected from his rating, could be I misinterpreted his abilities.
It is not that he never sees the court, it is that I find he often is paying way more attention to handling the ball than a quality point would have to. You seem to be arguing about which comes first, I believe his problems ( i.e. indecisiveness) are an amalgamation cascading from poor ball handling ability, matter of opinion. Either way right now he is not able to get the job done at this level. I hope he can get it together. I just, from observation, have some doubt that will happen this year or maybe longer.
Not bashing the young man just telling it as I see it. From what I see from Boeheim he is not that pleased either, but is giving Joseph every chance prior to the start of ACC play. I guess he has little choice because this team has no other player close to being a true point guard.
In the end I agree all of our comments are observations and opinions but when posted on the board they also become fair game for comment. I think you will be pleased with Kaleb in another 10 games or so, just my opinion.
 
I'm not learned in reading comprehension but looking at your OP again its possible for the second bracketed by commas statement to be taken on its own, I would think. Look:

"Sorry but I can not agree, until or unless he improves his handle greatly, he will never be a good point, his lack of handle is his biggest problem and the one that is hardest to correct. He spends so much attention on handling the ball his court vision suffers. I wish it were not so, but he has a major problem being a point."

Obviously the first bracketed by commas section (italics) seems to relate to not agreeing with the post you quoted. In this case is it not possible someone could then interpret the second bracketed by commas section (bold) to be a stand alone statement voicing your own related but separate opinion? I mean sure it could also read that it is an addendum to the first bracketed by commas section (italics) but I don't think its bad reading comprehension to see it as a stand alone related opinion either. Considering the rest of that post in context it could almost makes more sense that everything after the initial ITALICS section is a separate but topically relative opinion. Again I am certainly no English expert.
I see where your problem is I should have not have used the absolute verb will, even though it was qualified previously making it non absolute. Okay, can agree to that, substitute may which I used in other posts. I edited the post to reflect this change. Thanks for your input.
 
Having watched every player that has come through our program since Bing and Boeheim, I disagree. I am not saying he can not develope, just that he has further to go than you seem to think. I have seen him turn the ball over against minimal pressure, but disregarding that he often is looking at the ball while dribbling, and that is problematic. He often picks up his dribble with no place to go with the ball, this too gets him in trouble. I have nothing against him, he is just not as far along the point guard curve as I would have thought, and has further to work on than I expected from his rating, could be I misinterpreted his abilities.
It is not that he never sees the court, it is that I find he often is paying way more attention to handling the ball than a quality point would have to. You seem to be arguing about which comes first, I believe his problems ( i.e. indecisiveness) are an amalgamation cascading from poor ball handling ability, matter of opinion. Either way right now he is not able to get the job done at this level. I hope he can get it together. I just, from observation, have some doubt that will happen this year or maybe longer.
Not bashing the young man just telling it as I see it. From what I see from Boeheim he is not that pleased either, but is giving Joseph every chance prior to the start of ACC play. I guess he has little choice because this team has no other player close to being a true point guard.
In the end I agree all of our comments are observations and opinions but when posted on the board they also become fair game for comment. I think you will be pleased with Kaleb in another 10 games or so, just my opinion.

I think a lot of his concentrating on his ball handling is thinking. Worrying about the turnovers and trying to be extra sure rather than just going and playing. Obviously he does look at the ball and obviously he can dribble without doing so both of which can easily be spotted in pretty much every game. I agree that perhaps we are at a which came first the chicken or the egg argument in which case time will tell us more than arguing.
Again you say he is not able to get the job done at this level. The thing is he is getting the job done at this level with 5.5 assist per game which is second in the ACC right now. He is at 66 assists and 42 turnovers with a marked downturn of late. That is 1.57 to 1. I'd not be shocked to see 2 to 1 by seasons end. He may not be getting it done at stud levels as of yet and I'll gladly point out plenty of holes in his game but it seems to me that many refuse to acknowledge any good because we have had such high standard of PG play since Jonny hit the Hill in 07. We have a tendency to remember guys as finished products as well.

Guys as Freshman:
Hart: 189-99 (1.91 to 1) Thrown to the wolves like Kaleb
Aurty: 164-112 (1.46 to 1) Thrown to the wolves like Kaleb
Triche: 99-71 (1.39 to 1) Started but had help
Jardine: 82 - 59 (1.39 to 1) Played as a reserve
As a Sophmore after a year interning:
MCW: 292 - 136 (2.15 to 1)

Its easy to think of all those guys in the first group as finished products but they all struggled in this exact area of handling the ball and turning it over.
 
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I see where your problem is I should have not have used the absolute verb will, even though it was qualified previously making it non absolute. Okay, can agree to that, substitute may which I used in other posts.

I don't have a problem with it just saying that I can see how it could be interpreted differently than you meant it. Peace my man we will just have to watch and see. We all want Kaleb to be good lets hope its sooner rather than later.
 
I don't have a problem with it just saying that I can see how it could be interpreted differently than you meant it. Peace my man we will just have to watch and see. We all want Kaleb to be good lets hope its sooner rather than later.[

More my problem than yours, fixed. Amen to Kaleb, we do not have much to back him if he does not.
 

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