DaJuan playing on the wing...

[jekelish]

This may have happened before but I have not seen every game, but DaJuan is playing the wing of the zone with Roc on the middle. It's interesting to watch and see how he does. If he can play the wing, that will be a MASSIVE plus for us.

 

[SUintheVille]

DC's offensive game definitely needs some help right now. I know it will improve. Certainly a big body on D.

 

[ROCcuse]

Experimented with it in pre-season a lot. Don't recall if we've seen it since with big leads late in the second half. Love seeing JB try it and agree, it would be huge.

 

[RF2044]

DC's offensive game definitely needs some help right now. I know it will improve. Certainly a big body on D.

He sure struggled to score tonight. But on a positive note, he rebounded well.

 

[tee1222]

Did he not have a really nice assist to Grant dunk he didn't get credit for? Or was that someone else that fed Grant from the low post?

 

[cuseguy]

Coleman is still adjusting to the college game. It's still a bit fast for him, but he'll come around. He can score in double figures just by getting to the line 5 or 6 times.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

wow. coleman has no offensive game other than put backs. he has no clue as to how to utilize his size on the offensive end without absolutely bulldozing someone over. He needs a ton of work and a couple years I would say to get to the level of a reliable inside scorer. good thing we dont need him to score..just carve out space and get garbage both for himself and to facilitate garbage for others.

compare him to Arinze. ...I remember the first game arinze got into..you could see he had light feet despite his size and some really effective post moves...i remember in the pre season NIT when we were rolling someone, Vitale was saying "whose this guy? "

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

wow. coleman has no offensive game other than put backs. he has no clue as to how to utilize his size on the offensive end without absolutely bulldozing someone over. He needs a ton of work and a couple years I would say to get to the level of a reliable inside scorer. good thing we dont need him to score..just carve out space and get garbage both for himself and to facilitate garbage for others.

compare him to Arinze. ...I remember the first game arinze got into..you could see he had light feet despite his size and some really effective post moves...i remember in the pre season NIT when we were rolling someone, Vitale was saying "whose this guy? "

I don't recall Arinze doing much of anything as a freshman. He began to contribute as a sophomore. Coleman IMHO is way ahead of where he was. What I really like about Coleman is his ability to start the running game off a rebound. He is only going to get better, and as he does this team will get scarier and scarier. Enjoy the ride! It's going to be fun!!!

 

[tbonezone]

with his game right now i think duke would pin 5 fouls on him in about 4 minutes.

 

[orange79]

wow. coleman has no offensive game other than put backs. he has no clue as to how to utilize his size on the offensive end without absolutely bulldozing someone over. He needs a ton of work and a couple years I would say to get to the level of a reliable inside scorer. good thing we dont need him to score..just carve out space and get garbage both for himself and to facilitate garbage for others.

compare him to Arinze. ...I remember the first game arinze got into..you could see he had light feet despite his size and some really effective post moves...i remember in the pre season NIT when we were rolling someone, Vitale was saying "whose this guy? "

His freshman year, AO averaged 8 minutes and 2 pts/game. Contrast that to DC. (Hint - 17+ minutes, 6 1/2 pts/game).

 

[OttoMets]

wow. coleman has no offensive game other than put backs. he has no clue as to how to utilize his size on the offensive end without absolutely bulldozing someone over. He needs a ton of work and a couple years I would say to get to the level of a reliable inside scorer. good thing we dont need him to score..just carve out space and get garbage both for himself and to facilitate garbage for others.

compare him to Arinze. ...I remember the first game arinze got into..you could see he had light feet despite his size and some really effective post moves...i remember in the pre season NIT when we were rolling someone, Vitale was saying "whose this guy? "

No one (other than some hard-core recruitniks and maybe folks who watch high school ball in the DMV) had any idea who Arinze was. To me, just another undersized center who probably would be a non-factor for two seasons.

From the get-go, it was so clear that he had it. He was nearly automatic around the hoop, had great touch. And he pretty much won the game against West Virginia late that season with a circus shot while being tripped. Kid was a natural.

Coleman passes well (Jimmy talked to him, but his outlet to Triche was a good one). As a low-post scorer, he doesn't look like he's close. Needs a lot of space to get his shot off and doesn't seem to have figured out that 90% of the (many) times he's put the ball on the floor this season, something bad has happened.

I do think he can be a very good college center by midway through his sophomore year. What I don't know is why expectations were so high for him. Glad to see he's working hard and keeping his head up.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't recall Arinze doing much of anything as a freshman. He began to contribute as a sophomore. Coleman IMHO is way ahead of where he was. What I really like about Coleman is his ability to start the running game off a rebound. He is only going to get better, and as he does this team will get scarier and scarier. Enjoy the ride! It's going to be fun!!!

Coleman is going to get better, of course.

As a freshman, Arinze was so far ahead of him offensively. He didn't get consistent playing time until his third year (sat out his second after surgery). In 2005-2006 he was stuck behind Mookie but Boeheim still valued him enough to find him minutes late in the Big East schedule. He produced when he was in there.

 

[OttoMets]

His freshman year, AO averaged 8 minutes and 2 pts/game. Contrast that to DC. (Hint - 17+ minutes, 6 1/2 pts/game).

So one guy scores ~3 points per 8 minutes, the other guy scores two points per 8 minutes, and ____?

I don't think quoting numbers offers too much insight as to which player's offensive game was more refined.

 

[tbonezone]

as it stands right now i really don't see that coleman ,christmas ( or the mooseman) is really capable of defending the wing in the 2/3 zone . and good coaches will see that and find a way to attack that weak side.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

wow. coleman has no offensive game other than put backs. he has no clue as to how to utilize his size on the offensive end without absolutely bulldozing someone over. He needs a ton of work and a couple years I would say to get to the level of a reliable inside scorer. good thing we dont need him to score..just carve out space and get garbage both for himself and to facilitate garbage for others.

compare him to Arinze. ...I remember the first game arinze got into..you could see he had light feet despite his size and some really effective post moves...i remember in the pre season NIT when we were rolling someone, Vitale was saying "whose this guy? "

I remember Vitale saying that actually.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[orange79]

So one guy scores ~3 points per 8 minutes, the other guy scores two points per 8 minutes, and ____?

I don't think quoting numbers offers too much insight as to which player's offensive game was more refined.

I understand 'quoting numbers' as you put it doesn't tell the whole story. But sometimes who plays more and who doesn't does tell a story. The poster's point was to compare DC2 to AO, right? Well, something tells me AO's freshman year wasn't as fantastic as Steve believes (when compared to DC2) if he couldn't get more than 8 mins and 2 pts when the player ahead of him at C was Darryl Watkins.

Don't get me wrong, I love AO. But to say 'no offensive game' and 'no clue' and 'needs tons of work' and then offering the comparison to AO, sorry. I don't buy it. I like DC2 as a freshman over AO as a freshman. Hope DC2 can become as good (or better) and as important as AO was to us.

 

[OttoMets]

I understand 'quoting numbers' as you put it doesn't tell the whole story. But sometimes who plays more and who doesn't does tell a story. The poster's point was to compare DC2 to AO, right? Well, something tells me AO's freshman year wasn't as fantastic as Steve believes (when compared to DC2) if he couldn't get more than 8 mins and 2 pts when the player ahead of him at C was Darryl Watkins.

Don't get me wrong, I love AO. But to say 'no offensive game' and 'no clue' and 'needs tons of work' and then offering the comparison to AO, sorry. I don't buy it. I like DC2 as a freshman over AO as a freshman. Hope DC2 can become as good (or better) and as important as AO was to us.

No, I wouldn't argue that Arinze had a great freshman year, either. He didn't. But he did show something in limited time (and in the first seven games) that Coleman has yet to show. Among them: touch, composure, and a learned ability not to bring the ball down.

To be fair, Arinze got 20-plus games that year. I'd better give DaJaun the same opportunity before casting too much judgment. Seven games into the freshman season, though, I think Arinze was farther along (strictly offensively).

And here's hoping that our big guy does in fact become as good or better than Arinze was.

 

[RealSUFan]

Listen, I'm one of AO's biggest fans, but come on! He did almost nothing his freshman year, save one game where he got 8 rebounds in like 10 or 12 minutes, prompting JB to call him "a very interesting player."

To say AO as a freshman compares favorably to Coleman right now is just ludicrous. There was no sign in AOs freshman year that he would turn into the automatic scorer down low that he became after his red shirt season. As raw as he is, Coleman is on another level. Yes, DC2 has missed more than his share of bunnies, but his FG% is 47%, hardly a disaster. And he's already scored in double figures twice, with a high of 14 points already. And he's rebounding as well as AO ever did over the course of a season, in terms of rebounds per minute of play. And DC2 shoots free throws much better, a huge drawback about AO.

AO showed a brief flash of his potential freshman year, but it was hardly a foregone conclusion that he was going to be great. What was so great for us fans was that, like Rautins, AO lived up to his best-case projection as a player. DC2's mid-range projection is better than AOs best-case projection.

 

[OttoMets]

Listen, I'm one of AO's biggest fans, but come on! He did almost nothing his freshman year, save one game where he got 8 rebounds in like 10 or 12 minutes, prompting JB to call him "a very interesting player."

To say AO as a freshman compares favorably to Coleman right now is just ludicrous. There was no sign in AOs freshman year that he would turn into the automatic scorer down low that he became after his red shirt season. As raw as he is, Coleman is on another level. Yes, DC2 has missed more than his share of bunnies, but his FG% is 47%, hardly a disaster. And he's already scored in double figures twice, with a high of 14 points already. And he's rebounding as well as AO ever did over the course of a season, in terms of rebounds per minute of play. And DC2 shoots free throws much better, a huge drawback about AO.

AO showed a brief flash of his potential freshman year, but it was hardly a foregone conclusion that he was going to be great. What was so great for us fans was that, like Rautins, AO lived up to his best-case projection as a player. DC2's mid-range projection is better than AOs best-case projection.

I'm sorry, but that's not true. It's bordering on absurd to say that Coleman is "on another level." He brings the ball below his waist every time he receives a pass and has had difficulty getting his shot off against every defender he has faced.

And whether or not Arinze "did almost nothing" in his freshman year isn't at all germane to any of the claims made in this thread. Fact is, he clearly had a highly-refined offensive game. He was fundamentally sound and and had a way of consistently putting the ball into the basket. This isn't a subjective thing. Onuaku was clearly better at those things in December 2005 than Coleman is right now.

 

[orange79]

I'm sorry, but that's not true. It's bordering on absurd to say that Coleman is "on another level." He brings the ball below his waist every time he receives a pass and has had difficulty getting his shot off against every defender he has faced.

And whether or not Arinze "did almost nothing" in his freshman year isn't at all germane to any of the claims made in this thread. Fact is, he clearly had a highly-refined offensive game. He was fundamentally sound and and had a way of consistently putting the ball into the basket. This isn't a subjective thing. Onuaku was clearly better at those things in December 2005 than Coleman is right now.

Actually, it is germane. Steve says above, "compare him to Arinze." So we are. And many of the things you call 'fact', others would call opinion. It is a subjective thing when you are comparing freshman (who are at the beginning of their learning curve) 7 years apart, IMO. I agree, I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say DC2 is on another level, but to say AO was clearly better than Coleman at this stage might be a bit of a stretch.

 

[OttoMets]

Actually, it is germane. Steve says above, "compare him to Arinze." So we are. And many of the things you call 'fact', others would call opinion. It is a subjective thing when you are comparing freshman (who are at the beginning of their learning curve) 7 years apart, IMO. I agree, I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say DC2 is on another level, but to say AO was clearly better than Coleman at this stage might be a bit of a stretch.

But I wasn't talking about who is a better player or who has a higher ceiling and I wasn't making claims about what Arinze did as a freshman (not claiming he was productive or anything like that).

The only point is that one guy had - objectively - a superior offensive skillset as compared to the other. I suppose there could be some subjectivity, but many of the skills (not bringing the ball down, release point) are pretty cut-and-dried.

Two difficulties with the arguments on this board are people's difficulty to remember former players' positive attributes that aren't backed by statistics and people's unwillingness to ignore the hype surrounding highly-touted players and pay attention to what they see on the court.

Onuaku came in as a developed scorer. His defense wasn't there yet, he wasn't terribly mobile, and he was backing up a very capable (if not remarkable) junior center. But his ability to put the ball into the basket while absorbing contact was evident. As for Coleman, he does some things quite well. But pretend he's not a Syracuse player and pretend he didn't earn McDonald's honors. You'll see a guy who routinely gets position but needs to gather himself before shooting, a player who is reliant on taking a dribble before elevating, and whose release gives a lot of defenders the opportunity to alter his shot. None of those was a problem for Onuaku; each is something that is preventing Coleman from scoring on almost two-thirds of his touches.

 

[jekelish]

Arinze became a very good player, but it took a TON of work over the years. His footwork was nothing special when he got here, nor was his touch. He worked his ass off to get better at both.

DC2 is far more advanced at the same stage for a number of reasons, including the fact that DC2 doesn't just draw fouls, but he can actually knock down free throws. That makes up for a ton. He's also a better passer than Arinze, and I think AO was an underrated passer.

 

[OttoMets]

Arinze became a very good player, but it took a TON of work over the years. His footwork was nothing special when he got here, nor was his touch. He worked his ass off to get better at both.

DC2 is far more advanced at the same stage for a number of reasons, including the fact that DC2 doesn't just draw fouls, but he can actually knock down free throws. That makes up for a ton. He's also a better passer than Arinze, and I think AO was an underrated passer.

Hate these arguments, but what you're saying doesn't jibe with what I saw from Arinze. Would be curious to know what you're basing the "his touch was nothing special" on.

Coleman is certainly a better passer than Arinze and also than a lot of other bigs we've had. And he's a better free-throw shooter, too. To be sure, both of those contribute to his offensive skillset as a whole. Neither makes up for his difficulty to turn touches into baskets. (By my count, he has 55 offensive touches this year. 14 turnovers, 34 field goal attempts, 16 field goal makes, 26 free throws, 15 free throw makes. A lot of empty possessions, all due to flawed fundamentals. Fundamentals that Arinze possessed upon his arrival at Syracuse.)

 

[jekelish]

Arinze didn't have great touch as a freshman. It improved over time. I think you are misremembering how skilled and how good Arinze was as a freshman.

Again, I loved Arinze, but he was not as good as DC2 is as a frosh.

 

[OttoMets]

Arinze didn't have great touch as a freshman. It improved over time. I think you are misremembering how skilled and how good Arinze was as a freshman.

Again, I loved Arinze, but he was not as good as DC2 is as a frosh.

We're going to have to get together and watch some film.