Deep Threat

[Nick44]

Everyone is debating whether it was coaching or talent that cost this team the last 5 games and deservedly so. While I am still a Doug Marrone fan, let me make a case that coaching failed to get this team from 5-2 to at least 6-6.

All year we have said that no deep threat has emerged because our best WR's can't get deep, Nassib can't hit that pass and the burners that we do have (Kobena and Graham) can't catch that pass.

While I am in agreement on Nassib's inability with this pass and the limitation of Chew, Lemon and West, does anyone recall Kobena/Graham sent on a streak route and the ball was dropped? I sure as heck don't. In fact, I don't even recall an overthrown attempt by Nassib to Kobena/Graham all year. From my recollection, the only time I saw this play called was in the spring game when LOEB connected with Kobena for a 40 yard TD.

I still remember the 1999 Orange Bowl when on 1st down Spurrier would call a 15 yard out route to the WR. Then on 2nd down the WR would run the same route, the QB would pumpfake, the WR would turn up field for a wideopen play 50+ yards. Where is that creativity and risk taking with this coaching staff? It wasn't there this year and hasn't been in years.

 

[Rocco]

I agree. They didn't take enough shots downfield. Alot of it was because our receivers have ZERO ability to break press coverage. Nassib would be tasting little pieces of rubber by the time his receivers were downfield. That was the problem, and probably the reason why Hack never called those plays out.

Off-season partial remedy: each receiver work on bench press and focus on swim moves.

 

[dollarbill44]

I saw the title and thought the "e" was an "o". What a disappointment.

 

[44PRIDE]

horseshiat! Are you telling me Lemon couldn't get separation from anyone? Marrone's game plan was to establish the run, come hell-or-highwater.

 

[OrangeMojo]

I agree. They didn't take enough shots downfield. Alot of it was because our receivers have ZERO ability to break press coverage. Nassib would be tasting little pieces of rubber by the time his receivers were downfield. That was the problem, and probably the reason why Hack never called those plays out.

Off-season partial remedy: each receiver work on bench press and focus on swim moves.

Graham is very strong - workout warrior kid - there's no way he couldn't get off the line against most of these teams. I don't get it - even if Graham gets behind the defense and drops the ball or gets overthrown it at least forces the defense to respect that possibility. Huge fail by Hackett this season - huge fail (and not just because of this specific issue).

 

[ForeverOrange]

I think the reason we didn't take many shots was primarily due to the fact that Nassib 90% of the time wasn't remotely close. It really wouldn't have mattered if you put Graham or Kobena or even Marvin Harrison back there, there were open shots to be taken but the reality was those were VERY low percentage throws for Nassib so probably weren't worth the risk in Marrone's eyes.

 

[kingottoiii]

I am not sure why we didn't use Kobena and Graham more in the O. Graham seemed to be becoming a nice part of the O, and then disappeared. Why did we not call more screens to him or more end arounds? Same with Kobena who I believe had one special screen play against WV, only to never been seen from again.

I think these two are a prime example of the misuse of talent caused from our system. Marrone's system has a lot of formations with FBs or double TEs. I am sorry but you cannot convince me that a system that requires a lot of PT for Kose and Stevens is maximizing our O talent. Wouldn't it have been nice to see a lot more 3 WRs sets with Graham or Kobena in there? Wouldn't that have forced a defender over the slot WR instead of staying in the box to assist on running plays? Wouldn't it have been nice to throw the ball more to them on bubble screens, getting them the ball in space? And why it is that FBs and TEs seem to be becoming extinct everywhere else, but at SU we rely so heavily on them?

 

[Aweart23]

I am not sure why we didn't use Kobena and Graham more in the O. Graham seemed to be becoming a nice part of the O, and then disappeared. Why did we not call more screens to him or more end arounds? Same with Kobena who I believe had one special screen play against WV, only to never been seen from again.

I think these two are a prime example of the misuse of talent caused from our system. Marrone's system has a lot of formations with FBs or double TEs. I am sorry but you cannot convince me that a system that requires a lot of PT for Kose and Stevens is maximizing our O talent. Wouldn't it have been nice to see a lot more 3 WRs sets with Graham or Kobena in there? Wouldn't that have forced a defender over the slot WR instead of staying in the box to assist on running plays? Wouldn't it have been nice to throw the ball more to them on bubble screens, getting them the ball in space? And why it is that FBs and TEs seem to be becoming extinct everywhere else, but at SU we rely so heavily on them?

Kobena has been playing hurt since the WVU game. Mysterious lower body injury (looked like a bum ankle to me) He was limping pretty badly on Saturday.

 

[SUFan44]

Combination of things.

90% inaccuracy from Nassib on deep throws, combined with 90% likelihood of the offensive line allowing a free man on a 5 or 7-step drop, equates to the lack of deep throws.

While some on this board may have you believe that the WR's couldn't run past a 90-year old in a stroller, I think the issues lie between the QB and the OL. Both of which need to change immediately.

 

[kingottoiii]

Kobena has been playing hurt since the WVU game. Mysterious lower body injury (looked like a bum ankle to me) He was limping pretty badly on Saturday.

If so then why was he still returning KOs?

 

[Aweart23]

If so then why was he still returning KOs?

He didn't the second half against Cincy...and He was limping pretty badly coming off the field during the first half against Pitt. Why is he still out there...no idea..

 

[dollarbill44]

I think the reason we didn't take many shots was primarily due to the fact that Nassib 90% of the time wasn't remotely close. It really wouldn't have mattered if you put Graham or Kobena or even Marvin Harrison back there, there were open shots to be taken but the reality was those were VERY low percentage throws for Nassib so probably weren't worth the risk in Marrone's eyes.

Nonsense, some of the best plays on offense this season were 10-15 yard slants to Lemon. Nassib is not accurate on crossing patterns, but he seems to be very adept at throwing slants. I don't know if it is some vision anomaly he has, but he definitely can't hit the crossing patterns.

 

[dollarbill44]

He didn't the second half against Cincy...and He was limping pretty badly coming off the field during the first half against Pitt. Why is he still out there...no idea..

I agree. He wasn't that effective when healthy. Although he did have one nice KO return against Pitt when he finally just ran full speed straight ahead rather than running to the 20 and stopping.

 

[mgurtz79]

So Nassib in the Pinstripe Bowl was capable but magically he was no longer able to complete deep passes that he completed earlier last year to Chew (before he got hurt, which I believe he has never been the same since) and in the Pinstripe Bowl to Sales (NOT LEMON). Like most QB's not named Barkley or Luck he could be more accurate, but the reality is he doesn't have a receiver who makes it easy.

I dont' know if there are metrics on deep passes for college football but I can tell you Nassib did complete more than 10% of his deep passes (FYI most metrics list a deep pass as longer than 20-yards in the air, some keep percentages for over 40 as well). Lemon is a great route runner and good on short and intermediate routes, he is not a deep receiver. We do not have a guy who can get open deep and speed is not the only necessary requirement. Mike Williams was not as fast as Graham yet he was always open deep, why? We don't have a receiver capable thats why. I don't know if there is one on the roster redshirting (Hale) or who was not ready yet (Foster, Kobena, Flemming) or one coming in (Cornelius, Ford, Lewis) but it is clear that Graham and Lemon are not those guys.

Just an FYI I went to the home games this year. Yes Graham and Chew ran fly routes a few times a game and I can only think of one instance where they (Chew) were beyond the defense to where they could have had an easy touchdown. Mike Williams had at least 3 or for of those instances his last year.

 

[Millhouse]

So Nassib in the Pinstripe Bowl was capable but magically he was no longer able to complete deep passes that he completed earlier last year to Chew (before he got hurt, which I believe he has never been the same since) and in the Pinstripe Bowl to Sales (NOT LEMON). Like most QB's not named Barkley or Luck he could be more accurate, but the reality is he doesn't have a receiver who makes it easy.

I dont' know if there are metrics on deep passes for college football but I can tell you Nassib did complete more than 10% of his deep passes (FYI most metrics list a deep pass as longer than 20-yards in the air, some keep percentages for over 40 as well). Lemon is a great route runner and good on short and intermediate routes, he is not a deep receiver. We do not have a guy who can get open deep and speed is not the only necessary requirement. Mike Williams was not as fast as Graham yet he was always open deep, why? We don't have a receiver capable thats why. I don't know if there is one on the roster redshirting (Hale) or who was not ready yet (Foster, Kobena, Flemming) or one coming in (Cornelius, Ford, Lewis) but it is clear that Graham and Lemon are not those guys.

Just an FYI I went to the home games this year. Yes Graham and Chew ran fly routes a few times a game and I can only think of one instance where they (Chew) were beyond the defense to where they could have had an easy touchdown. Mike Williams had at least 3 or for of those instances his last year.

He was terrible at deep passes in 2010 too. Especially down sidelines which is where they often need to go.

 

[SWC75]

We used Graham as a possession receiver even though he's supposed to be our fastest player. Then we didn't use him at all. :noidea: