OrangeXtreme
The Mayor of Dewitt
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 231,167
- Like
- 419,788
Desko deserves credit for saved season, not flack for sudden end (DO)
- Thread starter OrangeXtreme
- Start date
riskylogic
Scout Team
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2011
- Messages
- 329
- Like
- 99
Meaning, he deserves credit and flack, right?
orange79
Internet Sleuth
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 42,411
- Like
- 132,263
Yes. Just MO, but if he's at fault for Sunday, he gets credit for pulling them out of the early-season tailspin. Don't misunderstand me -Sunday was an epic fail.
midloviking
2nd String
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2011
- Messages
- 837
- Like
- 559
- (early season fail with loaded roster) + (nice recovery) - (epic fail, team not prepared for zone) = - (overall)
this trend is the reason i side with thinking desko should go. too many early/mid season failures only to have a miraculous recovery- (early season fail with loaded roster) + (nice recovery) - (epic fail, team not prepared for zone) = - (overall)
swish7
All American
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 4,266
- Like
- 7,825
On board with Orange79 here.
He gets credit for both the successes and failures. Which means he gets credit for both beating and losing to Duke, for example. We won on a last second comeback, but also suffered our worst loss in 35 years, to any team, to Duke.
The reasonable sentiment seems to be that enough is enough. As Go stated after Mad made the Desk-go post, Desko has earned some rope'. The question is, how much rope? And, how much of these mounting negatives are you willing to bear?
As Jeremy stated, we are the Kentucky Hoops of DI lacrosse. Or, as another poster put so well, we are the Iowa Wrestling.
There is this little devil of a variable to all these arguments. It is called 'parity'.
People often roll out the 'parity' angle a little blindly. Parity isn't affecting Duke. 8 straight final 4s. It is apparently affecting SU and JHU. It benefits Denver, I guess, if I am being lenient.
Parity aside, as 79 said, Sunday was an 'epic fail'.
Not getting the Thompsons, whatever the excuse, was an epic fail. I told myself I would be willing to let that argument drop if SUs success exceeded their success. But now, these guys whom are 8 miles down the road, and legacy recruits, and interested in SU, we cannot be bothered to communicate enough with? Whatever, bottom line is this. They were qualified academically for 4 years. One of them will win the Tewaarton this year, and the other may win it next year. In turn, we will have no NCs during their tenure.
My heart goes out to the SU kids. Some of them clearly put in the effort on Sunday. That press conference was one of the more depressing sports press conferences I've seen. That was some true hang-dog stuff.
Not going to belabor every point, but other team's middies seem bigger, faster, and more effective than ours. Goalie play is average. And being stymied against that zone, just inexcusable. Desko has his rope. He is an enigma. 5 NCs, continued Slugger's success. But also many things were broken under his watch. The F4 streak. The tourny streak. And, this is debatable, but the Iroquois connection.
He's got a couple years to get it back together. But, after that, enough is enough.
JeremyCuse
Renowned lacrosse analyst
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 41,724
- Like
- 54,452
Your point about the middies is 100% accurate. Loy was MIA most of the year, Lecky is an enigma on a level I have never seen before and Schoonmaker never looked the same after that shoulder injury. As deep as the attack was this year you never got the feeling that either mid line was near their level. We some flashes especially from the second mid line with Galasso and Ward but it was to inconsistent. Galasso by the end of the year was probably the best middie on the team, why he wasn't starting is mindboggling. Need to to try a few new looks next year, Galasso and Schoonie probably starting, I would prefer Lecky on the second line, hes just to inconsistent.
In regards to the Thompsons we will never know the 100% true story but from all the info we have gathered it appeared to be an issue where things just broke perfectly where the two sides could never match up. Miles and Lyle wanted to play with Ty and Syracuse never recruited Ty. There was also major concern that the two brothers would never get academically eligible, even the fomer lax guy at the post standard called it a miracle they qualified academically. Second despite this loss Miles and Ty are senior and dont have half the accomplishments Syrause has had the past four years, they would need to advance to the title game to even get on the same footing. Next year Lyle will be by himself and ALbany will be lucky to even make the tournament.
In regards to Desko himself I am a bit torn. Part of me agrees that the end of the final four streak, the NCAA streak, and the first round upsets are enough to move on. However, the other part of me says those streaks weren't going to last forever and it was only a matter of time regardless of who the coach was. That being said with me personally a lot of the rope Desko built up was lost with this game to Bryant. Its one thing to get upset like we did vs the Army game ( happens and that team struggled to score the entire year). But to have it happen again less then 5 years later to a team that nearly beat you the previous year with the exact same squad is totally unacceptable. This team should have at minimum reached the final four. As I said after the game next year is make or break for Desko and hes staring at Bryant part 3 in the first round again.
OrangeXtreme
The Mayor of Dewitt
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 231,167
- Like
- 419,788
swish7
All American
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 4,266
- Like
- 7,825
Great list. Some came before Lyle and Miles., correct?
Anyhow, it seemed the Iroquois would come to SU without question. Now, we have 4 of the best, playing for other teams. 1 at Denver, and 3 at Albany. Gewas Schindler went to Loyola, but besides him, how many Iroquois played on other teams besides SU?
That said, I'm ecstatic at their increased opportunities. I might pick Denver over Syracuse myself, just from a cool place to be perspective. And Tierney is a great coach. But Albany? No.
Even if it was a miracle they qualify. You still recruit the hell out of them, and have a plan B (OCC and players XYZ) if they do not qualify.
OrangeXtreme
The Mayor of Dewitt
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 231,167
- Like
- 419,788
Here's the problem with Plan B.
Kids are committing as early as their Soph years in HS, and there are even Frosh commits now.
What if we put all our eggs in the Thompson basket, and all three didn't qualify at SU? The three of them demanded to be a package deal to the same school ... it was all or nothing.
We get the double whammy ... no Thompsons, and it's too late to get decent replacements. It's Michael Vick all over again ... we end up with Nunes.
Keep this in mind ... neither Jeremy or Jerome qualified out of HS. It took Jeremy three years to get a qualifying grade at OCC, and Jerome never finished. It wasn't unreasonable to think that the "mini-Thompsons" would have the same issues.
Kids are committing as early as their Soph years in HS, and there are even Frosh commits now.
What if we put all our eggs in the Thompson basket, and all three didn't qualify at SU? The three of them demanded to be a package deal to the same school ... it was all or nothing.
We get the double whammy ... no Thompsons, and it's too late to get decent replacements. It's Michael Vick all over again ... we end up with Nunes.
Keep this in mind ... neither Jeremy or Jerome qualified out of HS. It took Jeremy three years to get a qualifying grade at OCC, and Jerome never finished. It wasn't unreasonable to think that the "mini-Thompsons" would have the same issues.
JeremyCuse
Renowned lacrosse analyst
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 41,724
- Like
- 54,452
Well said Extreme, you absolutely nailed it.
Hoo's That
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2013
- Messages
- 25,266
- Like
- 67,422
Zed Williams, a Seneca, plays for us.
I know it's no consolation, but we're having this same type of discussion on theSabre.
BlazeOrange
Starter
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2011
- Messages
- 1,949
- Like
- 1,922
Zed has a younger brother - Sherman - any idea if he's being looked at? Per this old article:
But there's another Williams in the pipeline. Sherman, the youngest of the Williams brothers, followed Zach and Zed's path by playing varsity as an eigth grader last season, registering 31 goals and 20 assists. And this season, he's already established himself as one of the team's top scoring threats, putting up upward of 10 points in several games.
http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/inside-lacrosse-june-issue-silver-creeks-zed-williams/13878
Hoo's That
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2013
- Messages
- 25,266
- Like
- 67,422
No idea, but I'm one of the last people to know anything.
CaliCuse
All American
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 7,207
- Like
- 2,164
Part of his duties as head coach include recruiting players that can provide wins FO and goalies are a major need for the Orangemen for some time now. If we have quality coming in for next season he gets a reprieve but that won''t last too long.vI think he is going to be on the proverbial "hot seat" starting next season until the program is restored to its former status.
swish7
All American
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 4,266
- Like
- 7,825
Looked at another way, and I am not putting these words in your mouth, 'we couldn't be bothered to wait for yet another Thompson to qualify'. If true, no wonder the Thompson trio were turned off by it.
I can understand the butt hurt over Jeremy. It took forever for him to qualify. But after he qualified, he was an excellent team member.
If we couldn't be bothered is the reason, and that group of players goes on to win a couple, even one Tewaarton, and advances their state school to the final 4, while we sit at home, then shame on us. If we hail the victories, we must fairly acknowledge the mistakes.
The Thompsons will be talked about for the next 10 years, just like the Gaits were.
wvlax
2nd String
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2012
- Messages
- 587
- Like
- 290
Agreed he's got at least a couple years but can't get it outta my head a #2 seed and going home early again is inexcusable. Some trends of late: since 2009 we've been to one final four. Meanwhile, during that time teams are pulling even or even ahead of us. Duke has won 2 titles been to the semis every year, Cornell has been to 2 final fours, Virginia 2 final fours, Notre Dame 2 final fours (and maybe #3 this weekend), the same is true for Maryland and Denver (possibly #3 for MD & Den this weekend).
During that time we've been 1 or 2 seed but lost to Army 2010 (seeded 2), Maryland 2011 (seeded 1), 2012 (unseeded), 2013 (champ game, seeded 1), 2014 Bryant (seeded 2).
There are many ways to interrupt this data, 1)we're overachieving during the regular season but getting out-coached early in the playoffs? 2)Since two of those losses occurred on the Sunday night of graduation day, perhaps move that game to Friday or Saturday? Just too many distractions.
Like this year, I thought the 2010 and 2011 early exits we grossly underachieved.
Switching gears to some recruiting musings:
I think our recruiting is a bit disjointed. We're so loaded with attackmen. In many ways a good problem to have. Example A: Our 2nd midfield was made up of converted attackmen,.Were so loaded with attackmen we can barley get Jordan Evans on the field. The same is true with Dylan Maltz. But at midfield we have only Schoonmaker, Lecky and Loy as true Division 1 ACC midfielders. Don't know who plays the 3rd middie next year with Lecky and Schoony (Galasso probably - don't really think he's a natural midfielder, might be functional though) but nonetheless we're thin at midfield and we were exposed against Bryant. More significantly at the short stick d mid line, our guys are really undersized and we aren't recruiting well there. I didn't see anyone this year remotely resembling Ianzito, Matt Abbott or Jared Park.Perhaps Grimm next year?
Speaking of next year despite being thin at midfield we will be locked and loaded to make a title run. As bad as our defense was, getting that year of experience as a group is huge. They will be better. We'll have the new goalie from OCC. With the early NCAA exits of late pressure is growing a bit on the Hill but I think Desko remains the man for the job.
OrangeXtreme
The Mayor of Dewitt
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 231,167
- Like
- 419,788
At the present time, ESPN doesn't do Friday night tournament games.
The Dome is used for graduation ceremonies all day Saturday, and half the day Sunday. If SU hosts, the game will always be the late one Sunday night. Been that way for years.
swish7
All American
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 4,266
- Like
- 7,825
Agreed. Remember the uproar when the Final 4 streak was broken? Ex players were calling out current players, saying they didn't play with heart. That broke the seal. It changed our expectations. We didn't make the playoffs. Then, we get back in 2006 with Bucktooth and crew, but got pounded by Virginia. The measuring stick has been severely stretched since we lost that F4 streak. Now, it's a first round exit to a team that didn't exist when we last won a title. It is mind boggling.
People forget too that we should have 3-peated with Joel White, Galloway and crew. That team was loaded. They got 2, but really should have got a third.
At some point you have to recall that we once were the Kentucky of college hoops or the Iowa of wrestling or the UConn of women's basketball, and demand excellence. Getting to the championship game last year is excellence. Losing in the 1st round is not. It's an enigma.
i'm just getting sick of the ups and downs that happen within the season for the past 5 years. at the end of every season, we, as fans, look at the returning talent and incoming class and say "next year is desko's year". then some debacle happens during the season and we repeat this convo. it is getting old
Similar threads
