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Message: [QUOTE="sufandu, post: 1909189, member: 874"] Exactly. Your first paragraph is part of what I was saying with the pro vs college loyalty. AlL of the schools you mentioned have asome sort of hindrance: RU - no tradition and in Giants land, SU - private school, if you're not in terms CNY or alumni you don't care, BC - private school that is neither the sawks or celts, UConn - way too late to the game, Pitt - Penn St's little brother in the Steel country. What also hurts is the collective lack of success along with the absence of a conference in the 70's when national exposure became a thing through TV and so many of the "factories" were able to transition there regional tradition to a national one. Had SU been in an established league and been able to sustain the success of the 50's-60's through the 70's, I wonder what things would look like now. [/QUOTE]