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Message: [QUOTE="Cusefan95, post: 5468331, member: 173"] I think the segment of the fanbase that still argues that Coach P could have turned things around if only the school gave him a chance while turning him into a blameless victim cause a reactionary "Coach P sucked" take. Honestly both sides of that are making emotional takes that aren't very well connected to reality. As much as Jimbo gets lambasted for leaving FSU (and how he left), he did it because he saw they were not investing the way their peers were -and winning there was going to get harder and harder if that didn't change. He absolutely created change at FSU - although we can debate if the legally dubious efforts to flee the ACC are good change or not. Syracuse needed someone in the mid-90's to take that stand - and neither Coach P or Jake were men for that task. Things needed to change for Syracuse to remain competitive - and that change didn't come until after they were gone. And by that point, it was already too late. Overall, I think Jake and Coach P were both better than average at their roles - but they both have a big black stain on their legacies that we should be able to acknowledge while still celebrating their accomplishments. PS - The late 90's teams never had the line play or depth to be top 10 teams. And McNabb also showed his limitations in the pros - he wasn't a guy who could overcome mediocrity around him and still drag a team to victory over other top teams. They were good not great teams with star power that caused them to be overrated, and us to be disappointed when they frankly played to their ability. In retrospect its fairly clear the collapse of the program had already started by that point since our depth was nonexistent - we just didn't realize it until the quality of the first-line guys dipped as well a couple years later. [/QUOTE]

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