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Message: [QUOTE="Archbold44, post: 5468403, member: 10528"] Good point. But losing to Middle Tennessee State (and Shafer) was as bad a loss as Clemson was a great win. We should have been 4-8 that year. We were 4-8 that year. 2009... emotionally, going from the GRob era to 4-8 was an improvement and progress. 2017 was the third straight 4-8 season. Our worst loss was 4-8 Louisville on the road, 10-9. Not the same embarassment as Middle Tennessee State at home. And beating ranked Rutgers at home with so many injuries and by so much was huge. The 2017 schedule is pretty close to 2025 in terms of challenge. Road games against LSU, NC State, Miami, Florida State, and Louisville. I am just arguing for the sake of arguing. 2017 is just as good if not better. 2009 was it for me though, having lived through it in real time. [/QUOTE]