Dino's recruiting philosophy

[HRE Otto IV]

Looking at our roster and current commits, he seems to have the WHERE down. Although IMO we should have more of a presence in Ohio. It is a talent rich state and drivable (although long) for player families. We can easily schedule an Ohio MAC team every year to help our presence there. Pitt and Louisville are drivable road trips for player families. Plus playing ND, which tends to have Ohio kids, could help. And of course playing Clemson yearly. We have gotten some good talent from the state in the past. Yes most kids will want to go to the B1G, but we recruit GA which is SEC territory and further away. The are good Ohio players who slip through the cracks and end up at lower B1G programs, Cincy, and even the MAC. We should be getting some of these kids.

But the real point of my post is the WHAT, ie types of players. It is interesting that each of our prior HCs had different strengths. I think Dino should learn from those strengths.

Shafer was able to find some quality kids who may have been too small for bigger schools. I do not want a roster full of tiny guys but we need to be able to find guys like Cordy and Estime.

Marrone was able to bring in quality OL. Maybe Dino should reach out to pick Marrone's brain on what traits are best to use in finding potential OL. Also Marrone liked to bring in guys who were captains of their HS team. That will help with team leadership which we seem to be missing the last few years.

GRob was able to bring in top end guys. No clue how but you have to give him credit for getting some of the studs he did. We definitely are lacking studs on O the last 3 years.

Coach P was great a finding guys whose true positions were elsewhere. IMO this is the biggest aspect that we have been missing. Think about all the guys who came to SU at one position and ended up in the NFL at another. You can't have every recruit be like this but a portion of the recruiting class should be.

This is really where SU can gain a competitive advantage. While other schools are looking for plug and play guys, we are willing to look at guys who can develop into studs. Finding RBs/WRs who can become DBs. Finding RBs/DBs who can become LBs. Finding TEs/LBs that can become DEs. Finding DEs that can become DTs. Finding WRs that can be TEs. Finding TEs that can become Ts.

We will never win the recruiting battles by being like everyone else. Unfortunately we have to do things differently. I am sure that when Dino first got here his plan was to recruit like he had everywhere else he had been. Whether he likes it or not, as a HC he is stuck with us. He won't get another job anytime soon. Since he is in it for the long haul, hopefully he will change his recruiting and even coaching to fit better to the needs of SU.

 

[Cusefan69]

Which of the coaches focused on getting team captains whenever they could? Was that Scott or Doug? While not something you can do all the time, I think it's important to recruit at least 5 to 6 captains each class. That would seemingly go a long way to getting the makeup of a team that understands certain concepts that maybe this year we are lacking some. I constantly refer back to Zaire but the young man came in a leader from high school and it showed.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Which of the coaches focused on getting team captains whenever they could? Was that Scott or Doug? While not something you can do all the time, I think it's important to recruit at least 5 to 6 captains each class. That would seemingly go a long way to getting the makeup of a team that understands certain concepts that maybe this year we are lacking some. I constantly refer back to Zaire but the young man came in a leader from high school and it showed.

I think it was Doug so I put it under him. We need leadership for sure.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Honestly, I think moving kids around too much is why we see we are so much smaller than some other programs in the ACC, have to be careful there. We really need to recruit some better lineman, easier said than done but I think this is why Dino is looking EVERYWHERE these days when it comes to lineman. We just are losing the battle up front on O and D. Shore that up, get a few more difference makers at WR and and a QB. That's all...

I agree Marrone recruited some tough SOB's at O Line as well as guys like Macky. That said, O line was his specialty so that makes sense although we seemed to have more personal fouls with some of these guys

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think it was Doug so I put it under him. We need leadership for sure.

marrone was all about leadership with the stuff he made the kids do off the field but fans complain about every coach when it comes to penalties, time management, 4th down calls and play calling in general. That will never change

 

[Chip]

I don't think much of Ohio is all that long a drive. Cleveland/Akron/Youngstown area you can do that drive in 5 hours tops. Nearly the same as NYC.

Stretch to Columbus. which is essentially the middle of the state, it's 7 hours tops. Not terrible.

 

[721Comstock]

tl/dr.

Shafer didn’t purposely recruit smurfs - that was all he could get.

Thankfully, some of his “hard-nosed, diamonds in the rough” panned out for us.
Many didn’t.

Dino ONLY kept THREE of FHCSMFS’ croots when he took over:
Moe, Rex, and Scoop.

All of the others ended up at lower level programs, and almost none made an impact there.

GERG had the benefit of:
A - we had still been good and relevant for a while when he first came in
B - Rutgers & UConn weren’t competing for our recruits then
C - he had Pete Carroll / NFL shine on him

It’s REMARKABLE just how bad a coach he was, considering some of the talent he had at his disposal.

Marrone (and staff) did a great job finding and developing guys who had zero recruiting buzz:
Jones brothers, Pugh, Nassib, etc.

Dino’s guys are consistently taller and faster than his predecessor’s croots.
He recruited a Frosh AA (Cisco) and a Groza
Award winner (Szmyt Happens!)

We’ve had 2 straight seasons where DQ’s, injuries, and misses have crippled our OL.
And, prior to Lamson, we missed on ALL of our priority QB targets.

So yeah, there are issues, and we absolutely need to improve.

But - Dino canned a bunch of coaches last year, and ALL the new guys are better recruiters than who they replaced.
We’ve got a QB, and a full complement of OL & DL in this current class.

My glass is still half full of Orange kool aid.

If at the end of next season we’re still a tire fire, then re-evaluation must take place.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

marrone was all about leadership with the stuff he made the kids do off the field but fans complain about every coach when it comes to penalties, time management, 4th down calls and play calling in general. That will never change

The penalty thing with Marrone never made sense. On the one hand he had life skills off the field (another thing for Dino to consider), but on the field the team lacked discipline.

Penalties happen. Aggressive penalties are usually bad luck. Younger players tend to commit more penalties. Dumb penalties and penalties from upperclassmen shouldn't happen often.

We cannot afford to overcome penalties. Look at Dino's time here in comparison to the other small private schools within conference games:
2019
Wake 1st
Duke 2nd
BC 3rd
SU 14th
2018
Duke 2nd
BC 5th
Wake 6th
SU 11th
2017
BC 1st
Duke 3rd
Wake 5th
SU 10th
2016
Wake 1st
Duke 3rd
BC 9th
SU 12th
These are things that we can actually control. Yet it seems like it doesn't bother Dino to have these out of control.

 

[Pyle]

I don't think much of Ohio is all that long a drive. Cleveland/Akron/Youngstown area you can do that drive in 5 hours tops. Nearly the same as NYC.
Stretch to Columbus. which is essentially the middle of the state, it's 7 hours tops. Not terrible.

Dayton sucks. My kid had a show there last year. Drove down Friday pm. Show on Sat. Drove back Sun am. It's listed as just over 8 hours but add some traffic, a few bathroom stops, and a dinner break and it was more like 10 hours each way.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Just looked at 247 which I hope isn't accurate? Please tell me this isn't right?

2017 class
2 OL both listed as Ts. What the fudge?

That is how he bases his first full recruiting class on the OL? Is it any wonder why there has been no upperclassman on the OL and we have lacked depth the last two years? IMO we should be looking to bring in 4 OL a year. Three isn't ideal but understandable. But 2? And your first class where if anything you expect 4-5 given that you are purging the roster to get your kids in place?

Please tell me 247 is missing guys.

 

[Chip]

Dayton sucks. My kid had a show there last year. Drove down Friday pm. Show on Sat. Drove back Sun am. It's listed as just over 8 hours but add some traffic, a few bathroom stops, and a dinner break and it was more like 10 hours each way.

Yeah, Dayton is on the west side of the state, near Cincitucky. But we recruit west coast kids and Texas kids, so I would think we should push Ohio harder.

Maybe it's tougher given how well Cincy is playing, but Fickell will end up somewhere. Cincy's success tells you what you can build with the non-tOSU kids from that state, of which there are plenty.

Not to mention that we play at Pitt and Louisville every other year, which should also be pretty short drives.

 

[elimunelson]

Looking at our roster and current commits, he seems to have the WHERE down. Although IMO we should have more of a presence in Ohio. It is a talent rich state and drivable (although long) for player families. We can easily schedule an Ohio MAC team every year to help our presence there. Pitt and Louisville are drivable road trips for player families. Plus playing ND, which tends to have Ohio kids, could help. And of course playing Clemson yearly. We have gotten some good talent from the state in the past. Yes most kids will want to go to the B1G, but we recruit GA which is SEC territory and further away. The are good Ohio players who slip through the cracks and end up at lower B1G programs, Cincy, and even the MAC. We should be getting some of these kids.

But the real point of my post is the WHAT, ie types of players. It is interesting that each of our prior HCs had different strengths. I think Dino should learn from those strengths.

Shafer was able to find some quality kids who may have been too small for bigger schools. I do not want a roster full of tiny guys but we need to be able to find guys like Cordy and Estime.

Marrone was able to bring in quality OL. Maybe Dino should reach out to pick Marrone's brain on what traits are best to use in finding potential OL. Also Marrone liked to bring in guys who were captains of their HS team. That will help with team leadership which we seem to be missing the last few years.

GRob was able to bring in top end guys. No clue how but you have to give him credit for getting some of the studs he did. We definitely are lacking studs on O the last 3 years.

Coach P was great a finding guys whose true positions were elsewhere. IMO this is the biggest aspect that we have been missing. Think about all the guys who came to SU at one position and ended up in the NFL at another. You can't have every recruit be like this but a portion of the recruiting class should be.

This is really where SU can gain a competitive advantage. While other schools are looking for plug and play guys, we are willing to look at guys who can develop into studs. Finding RBs/WRs who can become DBs. Finding RBs/DBs who can become LBs. Finding TEs/LBs that can become DEs. Finding DEs that can become DTs. Finding WRs that can be TEs. Finding TEs that can become Ts.

We will never win the recruiting battles by being like everyone else. Unfortunately we have to do things differently. I am sure that when Dino first got here his plan was to recruit like he had everywhere else he had been. Whether he likes it or not, as a HC he is stuck with us. He won't get another job anytime soon. Since he is in it for the long haul, hopefully he will change his recruiting and even coaching to fit better to the needs of SU.

The amount of raw talent we pulled out of CT with P and D was incredible. Many of those guys came in to play a position and came out doing something else. Tebucky Jones was a1 in that regard.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yeah, Dayton is on the west side of the state, near Cincitucky. But we recruit west coast kids and Texas kids, so I would think we should push Ohio harder.

Maybe it's tougher given how well Cincy is playing, but Fickell will end up somewhere. Cincy's success tells you what you can build with the non-tOSU kids from that state, of which there are plenty.

Not to mention that we play at Pitt and Louisville every other year, which should also be pretty short drives.

I am sure some kids want to stay home. I am sure some kids get into Cincy that can't get into SU. But would the other kids really chose Cincy and the AAC over SU and the ACC? Yes, they play 6 games (at home) in Ohio every year. But those games are against the AAC none of whom are attractive to play. The road games aren't drivable. Look at the closest in conference game for them. Temple (over an 8 hour drive) is their closest yearly football rival.

 

[PatMark]

Here is an easy tool to start with that I know many schools use with regards to recruiting territories: List of destinations & airlines from Syracuse Hancock International - FlightsFrom.com

The site shows locations where you can get a direct flight to or from Syracuse. That is huge in recruiting. That's a great map and if we can recruit those areas successfully - we should be in good shape.

 

[PhatOrange]

Ohio is Big10 country, you're likely starting with the tier2 kids, so I think you have to be careful.

I'd personally make a bigger push into VA and NC. NC is loaded with talent and of the 4 North Carolina kids we've recruited 3 are/where starters and the 4th will be a starter. Mo Neal, Stefon Thompson, Garrett Williams and llaoa.

I think where we are recruiting doesn't need to be changed, I think we just need recruiters and I so far like what I'm seeing from West and White.

I believe the 2 positions that typically have hot shot recruiters could be upgraded in both position coaches and as recruiters. WR and RB. I'd love to see us go get a Florida guy with some cache at either position.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Ohio is Big10 country, you're likely starting with the tier2 kids, so I think you have to be careful.

I'd personally make a bigger push into VA and NC. NC is loaded with talent and of the 4 North Carolina kids we've recruited 3 are/where starters and the 4th will be a starter. Mo Neal, Stefon Thompson, Garrett Williams and llaoa.

I think where we are recruiting doesn't need to be changed, I think we just need recruiters and I so far like what I'm seeing from West and White.

I believe the 2 positions that typically have hot shot recruiters could be upgraded in both position coaches and as recruiters. WR and RB. I'd love to see us go get a Florida guy with some cache at either position.

We already get kids from VA and NC. We should continue there. Like I said before GA is SEC country and we get kids from there. We have recruited Michigan and Wisconsin which are further away than Ohio and have less talent. We shouldn't focus on Ohio but could/should have 3-4 kids on the roster from there. It is basically within our recruiting footprint and seems ignored. It shouldn't be a priority or near the top of the state list.

 

[Ozcuse]

Ohio is Big10 country, you're likely starting with the tier2 kids, so I think you have to be careful.

I'd personally make a bigger push into VA and NC. NC is loaded with talent and of the 4 North Carolina kids we've recruited 3 are/where starters and the 4th will be a starter. Mo Neal, Stefon Thompson, Garrett Williams and llaoa.

I think where we are recruiting doesn't need to be changed, I think we just need recruiters and I so far like what I'm seeing from West and White.

I believe the 2 positions that typically have hot shot recruiters could be upgraded in both position coaches and as recruiters. WR and RB. I'd love to see us go get a Florida guy with some cache at either position.

Our recruiting strength seems to be in the secondary and LB which is no surprise as that's where our best recruiter focuses.

I agree it would be good to get a Monroe for the offense that just focuses on skill guys from FL and GA.

It was brought up in another topic about PP, but I'd also recruit the best athletes you possibly can, let them compete for spots and move their positions if they don't win out.

I think we will always struggle to recruit highly regarded OL and DL with ideal size against our peers. Looking to build players up is probably our best path however it hasn't seemed to pan out recently due to injuries and/or development.

 

[PhatOrange]

We already get kids from VA and NC. We should continue there. Like I said before GA is SEC country and we get kids from there. We have recruited Michigan and Wisconsin which are further away than Ohio and have less talent. We shouldn't focus on Ohio but could/should have 3-4 kids on the roster from there. It is basically within our recruiting footprint and seems ignored. It shouldn't be a priority or near the top of the state list.

We've recruited kids from Ohio and more often than not they don't pan out. I'd have to go back to Tyson Gulley and Delone Carter, but in between we've gotten Troy Henderson, Andrew Armstrong, Carl Jones. meh.

I like recruiting Michigan but the returns there have been pretty weak to. Boy too bad Allen Stritzinger transferred out huh.

I'd rather put the time and resources into mining more/better kids from VA down to Georgia. Our conference footprint.

 

[Franz69]

I'd put a full court press on Canada.