Double digit loss seasons

[OrlandoCuse]

While JB has successfully avoided a losing season in his 46 year career, he has had double digit losses in 21 of his 46 seasons. Sometimes we have very successful double digit loss seasons like 2012-13 when we went 30-10 and made the Final Four. But more often than not, double digit loss seasons reflect a relatively poor season by Syracuse standards.

I went back and broke out the seasons by 9 year groups, with the exception of ‘76-77 to ‘85-86 which covers JB’s first ten years (only because it’s not easy to divide 46 seasons into equal groups).

‘76-77 to ‘85-86: 3 out of 10 seasons with double digit losses
‘86-87 to ‘94-95: 2 out of 9
‘95-96 to ‘03-04: 3 out of 9
‘04-05 to ‘12-13: 5 out of 9
‘13-14 to ‘21-22: 8 out of 9

It’s a pretty alarming trend. What’s even worse is the total number of losses. Before the NC season of 2003, JB’s max loss total in a season was 13, which happened on 3 out of 27 seasons.

Since 2003, we’ve had 13 or more losses in 7 out of 18 seasons, with the max being 15 in 2017.

So it’s a fairly significant downward trend. This season we’re probably looking at another 13+ loss year and could set the record for losses.

JB deserves a lot of rope because of what he’s done to build Syracuse basketball. But he’s clearly been given a lot of rope over the past decade. There’s enough evidence to realize JB is never rebuilding Syracuse basketball to what it once was. Never building it back to its full potential. The real question is how long is he allowed to keep the program in a state of mediocrity?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think on average we do play more games now than when his career started, but... yeah, that 8 out of 9 is glaring.

 

[sufandu]

To account for the difference in number of games played I've looked at winning percentage before. I forget the numbers and don't feel like taking the time to look it up and post, but the change is significant.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

If you play in a conference like the ACC you are likely to hit 10 losses. Conference tournament and NCAA tournament are 2. If you load up on terrible non conference opponents and somehow manage to make it to league play undefeated you still have to go 13-7.

 

[longtimefan]

While JB has successfully avoided a losing season in his 46 year career, he has had double digit losses in 21 of his 46 seasons. Sometimes we have very successful double digit loss seasons like 2012-13 when we went 30-10 and made the Final Four. But more often than not, double digit loss seasons reflect a relatively poor season by Syracuse standards.

I went back and broke out the seasons by 9 year groups, with the exception of ‘76-77 to ‘85-86 which covers JB’s first ten years (only because it’s not easy to divide 46 seasons into equal groups).

‘76-77 to ‘85-86: 3 out of 10 seasons with double digit losses
‘86-87 to ‘94-95: 2 out of 9
‘95-96 to ‘03-04: 3 out of 9
‘04-05 to ‘12-13: 5 out of 9
‘13-14 to ‘21-22: 8 out of 9

It’s a pretty alarming trend. What’s even worse is the total number of losses. Before the NC season of 2003, JB’s max loss total in a season was 13, which happened on 3 out of 27 seasons.

Since 2003, we’ve had 13 or more losses in 7 out of 18 seasons, with the max being 15 in 2017.

So it’s a fairly significant downward trend. This season we’re probably looking at another 13+ loss year and could set the record for losses.

JB deserves a lot of rope because of what he’s done to build Syracuse basketball. But he’s clearly been given a lot of rope over the past decade. There’s enough evidence to realize JB is never rebuilding Syracuse basketball to what it once was. Never building it back to its full potential. The real question is how long is he allowed to keep the program in a state of mediocrity?

What record for losses? An SU team in the early '60's lost 22 (another lost 19). Are you talking about JB's tenure?

Be careful about using absolute words like "never". That seldom works.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

What record for losses? An SU team in the early '60's lost 22 (another lost 19). Are you talking about JB's tenure?

Be careful about using absolute words like "never". That seldom works.

Strictly JB's tenure. I thought that was pretty clear from the parameters set in the first sentence.

 

[UpstateSM]

 

[OrlandoCuse]

If you play in a conference like the ACC you are likely to hit 10 losses. Conference tournament and NCAA tournament are 2. If you load up on terrible non conference opponents and somehow manage to make it to league play undefeated you still have to go 13-7.

Honestly, I think the whole ACC thing is a bit of a cop-out. It's a pretty clear decline in performance. Big East during different periods was just as strong as the ACC since we've joined. Heck, the ACC is really down this year. We do play more games in the ACC and the regular season, but that doesn't explain a jump of 7 or 8 additional losses.

The program has been on a slow and steady decline. The stats don't lie.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Honestly, I think the whole ACC thing is a bit of a cop-out. It's a pretty clear decline in performance. Big East during different periods was just as strong as the ACC since we've joined. Heck, the ACC is really down this year. We do play more games in the ACC and the regular season, but that doesn't explain a jump of 7 or 8 additional losses.

The program has been on a slow and steady decline. The stats don't lie.

Even if that was true we used to regularly go 11-2 to 13-0 in the OOC. Now it’s 7-4 or 6-5.

 

[sufandu]

Honestly, I think the whole ACC thing is a bit of a cop-out. It's a pretty clear decline in performance. Big East during different periods was just as strong as the ACC since we've joined. Heck, the ACC is really down this year. We do play more games in the ACC and the regular season, but that doesn't explain a jump of 7 or 8 additional losses.

The program has been on a slow and steady decline. The stats don't lie.

Exactly. You can also look at conference winning percentage and that is down too. The Big East was every bit as good as the ACC and was probably deeper much of the time we were there.

 

[Sherman20]

While JB has successfully avoided a losing season in his 46 year career, he has had double digit losses in 21 of his 46 seasons. Sometimes we have very successful double digit loss seasons like 2012-13 when we went 30-10 and made the Final Four. But more often than not, double digit loss seasons reflect a relatively poor season by Syracuse standards.

I went back and broke out the seasons by 9 year groups, with the exception of ‘76-77 to ‘85-86 which covers JB’s first ten years (only because it’s not easy to divide 46 seasons into equal groups).

‘76-77 to ‘85-86: 3 out of 10 seasons with double digit losses
‘86-87 to ‘94-95: 2 out of 9
‘95-96 to ‘03-04: 3 out of 9
‘04-05 to ‘12-13: 5 out of 9
‘13-14 to ‘21-22: 8 out of 9

It’s a pretty alarming trend. What’s even worse is the total number of losses. Before the NC season of 2003, JB’s max loss total in a season was 13, which happened on 3 out of 27 seasons.

Since 2003, we’ve had 13 or more losses in 7 out of 18 seasons, with the max being 15 in 2017.

So it’s a fairly significant downward trend. This season we’re probably looking at another 13+ loss year and could set the record for losses.

JB deserves a lot of rope because of what he’s done to build Syracuse basketball. But he’s clearly been given a lot of rope over the past decade. There’s enough evidence to realize JB is never rebuilding Syracuse basketball to what it once was. Never building it back to its full potential. The real question is how long is he allowed to keep the program in a state of mediocrity?

Good breakdown. This is the key to why he needs to go after this season:
“There’s enough evidence to realize JB is never rebuilding Syracuse basketball to what it once was. Never building it back to its full potential. The real question is how long is he allowed to keep the program in a state of mediocrity?”
And they need to bring in a high-profile or exciting up-and-coming coach to succeed him.

 

[Alsacs]

Good breakdown. This is the key to why he needs to go after this season:
“There’s enough evidence to realize JB is never rebuilding Syracuse basketball to what it once was. Never building it back to its full potential. The real question is how long is he allowed to keep the program in a state of mediocrity?”
And they need to bring in a high-profile or exciting up-and-coming coach to succeed him.

It doesn’t need to be a high profile hire. It just needs to be the right fit hire.

Running it back with his kids another year is the only thing he can’t do. We will be limited another year and JB and his defenders will lash out at criticism.

This isn’t personal. It’s about what we can see with our eyes.

 

[Orangezoo]

I just wish the view of things for JB and company echoed UNC. Roy had his first ever losing season followed by another weaker season and then he blew the whistle. Obviously Roy has more trophies but the regression in performance without answers was managed in a professional and practical manner. The likelihood growing of a losing season, just gotta hope things move the right direction with ample self awareness.