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Message: [QUOTE="Waltdods, post: 1118738, member: 2932"] "Nothing to do" is a little strong, but I think it's probably true that Etan's article was not mostly about the prescriptive question of whether celebrities [I]should[/I] voice their opinion. To the extent it had a thesis (and truthfully, although I'm generally sympathetic to Thomas politically, his writing always strikes me as less than excellent) it was about the descriptive question of [I]whether[/I] athletes have already spoken out. I'm not sure this is a particularly interesting question, but it is the one he addressed. What the article definitely was not about was a plea for victimhood, as you described it. I think you're right that most people in the thread did not actually read Etan's article and instead addressed a different question, which is "what do I think about liberals' position on Ferguson"? (Not really casting blame here; it's a difficult slog of an article.) Well, okay. I agree in an ideal world it would be great if everyone could wait to take positions (such as accusing 18-year-olds of murder, say) before all the facts were known. Literally no one does so. I'm not sure why we should hold Thomas to a standard no one else tries to meet. As with any controversy of this type, the actual facts of the precipitating event are kind of irrelevant anyway. I don't know if this is true any more than you do. The 18-year old unarmed kid shot by a policeman might be a "questionable character" or not. I would think someone as concerned with government overreach as you elsewhere claim to be would agree that the cops do not have a mandate to shoot "characters," however questionable. Look, it might be that Michael Brown is all of the terrible things you accuse him of. If he's not - if it turns out you've falsely accused a dead kid of murder - will that cause you to rethink things? Is there an actual position here other than celebrities should speak when they agree with me and shut up when they don't? (Also, Joan Rivers?) That is a sad story and I wish the best for your friend. I think the point you're trying to make is that people should take care of their own sh#t and not look to the government to do it for them (unless the point is just "stop whining", but I think you're more sophisticated than that). I don't agree with that position. But I would also point out that this is what is at the heart of much of the outcry over Ferguson - that the government is constantly getting in people's sh#t and interfering with their lives in a way they don't with mine or, I'd wager to guess, yours. You have your position on the racial politics argument; I think you're wrong, but obviously that is a gap we aren't going to bridge. But there are a lot of good reasons someone with your purported skepticism of state power should be sympathetic to a lot of the arguments Etan and others are making. Radley Balko at Reason is very good on this stuff, for example. [/QUOTE]

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