Expansion Thoughts from FSU Perspective | Syracusefan.com

Expansion Thoughts from FSU Perspective

I don't agree with him that the ACC should go to 20 teams, especially after he argues that if the B12 adds FSU and someone else it wouldn't increase each individual schools share. So why would the ACC go to 20 schools?
 
qdawgg said:
I don't agree with him that the ACC should go to 20 teams, especially after he argues that if the B12 adds FSU and someone else it wouldn't increase each individual schools share. So why would the ACC go to 20 schools?
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Many people agree the Big 12 is already overaid and there was specific discussion of a clause that guaranteed new Big 12 teams the same current share but that the contract would NOT get a renegotiation with new teams, a la ACC deal which specifically includes a clause to re-open the deal (welcome abord Syracuse and Pitt).

As for the ACC going to 20 schools, for a long time I never believed it either but high ranking people in the B1G and the Big 12 have already floated this number. Many years ago, it was inquired of the NCAA about 24 member conferences, so somoeone was very far sighted.

Strategically, the B1G is less likely to secure the desired ACC teams without bringing aboard a few more. UNC, UVA and GATech seem to be the most wanted schools, but the B1G would have to destroy the ACC to wedge them out. You can probably through Miami into that group, too. They all want some southeastern partners, just as FSU does (unless they get and SEC invite, then it does not matter).
 
Oh wow...an FSU fan that feels the world revolves around FSU. SHOCKER!

In all seriousness, its good to see a bit of calm (and rational thought) come over Tomahawk nation. When their BOT member came out and blasted the school administration, there was no telling which way they'd go.

Its also nice to see they no longer see SU/Pitt/LVille as empty additions and that we each have a mutual disrespect for WVU's fanbase...
 
I still don't believe the UVA flirtation with the BIG. I believe the BIG begging of UVA, but don't think UVA wants to go from being a top dog to a kitchen scrap dog.
 
These people put an awful lot of thought into this concept. I have to hope they have something better to do with all of that time.
 
I like the idea of the offering Texas the Notre Dame deal with the ACC when the Big XII is about to implode. Tell Texas they have to play 5 ACC teams a year with one of them being Notre Dame so its really 4 of the 14 ACC teams, then you get Texas aligned with the ACC, and you destroy the Big 12 and allow the Pac-12 to swoop-in and offer Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and two of TCU, Texas Tech, Kansas, and Kansas State into a potential Pac-16. Texas could still play Oklahoma every year and they have half its schedule already done each year and they could schedule 6 other tomato cans and have access to the playoffs. This way you have 14 full members with Texas and Notre Dame as your 15 and 16 if they decide to join full members, and if they leave you get 50 million bucks on there way out. You destroy the Big XII and get the Pac-12 to 16 and hope the ACC members are stable enough to resist offers from the B1G or SEC.
 
PeteCalvin said:
I still don't believe the UVA flirtation with the BIG. I believe the BIG begging of UVA, but don't think UVA wants to go from being a top dog to a kitchen scrap dog.
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I'm not sure that UVA really is a top dog. They aren't in NC, and they don't excel in any relevant sport (read fball, and bball).

I doubted Maryland would ever go either, and then they left, so from my point of view, who knows. It's a money grab, and eventually another school is going to go for it.
 
Orangemen said:
I'm not sure that UVA really is a top dog. They aren't in NC, and they don't excel in any relevant sport (read fball, and bball).

I doubted Maryland would ever go either, and then they left, so from my point of view, who knows. It's a money grab, and eventually another school is going to go for it.
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It is a money grab, but Maryland was vulnerable because their Athletic Department was hemorrhaging cash and the B1G is the quick cash influx they needed to sustain their Athletic teams. UVA and UNC aren't in fiscal trouble their Athletic Departments are healthy and the question is why leave comfort just for more money. If its 25 million a year from the ACC vs. 50 million from the B1G maybe you jump, but if its 25 million vs. 35-40 why jump? The money isn't the problem for UVA and UNC that it was for Maryland. Also, Maryland didn't have a real rival in the ACC Duke and UNC always tweaked Maryland with not our rival chants and that motivated Maryland out for the money. UVA and UNC are like blue blood elitist cousins who have to take care of their blue collar brothers NC State and Virginia Tech. Also, UVA is respected by UNC and Duke unlike Maryland. The only way the ACC breaks up if UNC decides to tap out. UVA is a ploy by the B1G to get its real target UNC. UVA isn't dumb and won't move without knowing UNC's intentions first.
 
Orangemen said:
I'm not sure that UVA really is a top dog. They aren't in NC, and they don't excel in any relevant sport (read fball, and bball).

I doubted Maryland would ever go either, and then they left, so from my point of view, who knows. It's a money grab, and eventually another school is going to go for it.
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UVA is a big dog in the ACC in terms of their place at the table, success on the field notwithstanding. They would be a bottom feeder in the BiG both on the field and in the board room. They know that.
 
My concern with UVa is president Sullivan, who was born in Illinois and was the provost and executive vice president for academics at Michigan before becoming president at Virginia only in 2010.

Like Loh at Maryland, she's not deeply rooted in ACC country whereas Casteen was a Virginian and very much into the ACC culture.

One good thing is that she was recently ousted by the UVa BOT only to get reinstated by a grassroots campaign amongst the UVa faculty. So she probably will be reluctant to make a controversial move, unlike Loh.

Cheers,
Neil
 
Alsacs said:
It is a money grab, but Maryland was vulnerable because their Athletic Department was hemorrhaging cash and the B1G is the quick cash influx they needed to sustain their Athletic teams. UVA and UNC aren't in fiscal trouble their Athletic Departments are healthy and the question is why leave comfort just for more money. If its 25 million a year from the ACC vs. 50 million from the B1G maybe you jump, but if its 25 million vs. 35-40 why jump? The money isn't the problem for UVA and UNC that it was for Maryland. Also, Maryland didn't have a real rival in the ACC Duke and UNC always tweaked Maryland with not our rival chants and that motivated Maryland out for the money. UVA and UNC are like blue blood elitist cousins who have to take care of their blue collar brothers NC State and Virginia Tech. Also, UVA is respected by UNC and Duke unlike Maryland. The only way the ACC breaks up if UNC decides to tap out. UVA is a ploy by the B1G to get its real target UNC. UVA isn't dumb and won't move without knowing UNC's intentions first.
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Correct.
 
WoadBlue said:
It is 'reasonable' by the standards of FSU internet fans. But it is still silly at best.
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  • The article is written from a FSU perspective but, on the whole, it is reasonable and certainly not silly.
    · FSU is not joining the Big 12 unless the ACC implodes This is reasonable.
    · UVA seems to be in some sort of flirtation stage with the B1G, but GT and UNC are not in a hurry to bolt to the B1G Who knows? Certainly not an unreasonable statement.
    · The Big 12 has little interest in going beyond 12. They really only want FSU, but would take an FSU friend if they had to. This is nonsense. FSU requires a group of 4-6, and even if there were 4-6 interested (and there aren't), the Big 12 is just not willing to go that far. This is nonsense. Anything beyond adding FSU will decrease their per-school share, and apparently they are not interested in anything that reduces share. This is reasonable.
    · A more cynical person might also suggest, since it seems so obvious that a tiny population, 10-school, 2-brand, very regional conference clearly is not well positioned for the future, that maybe some important members aren't all that keen to guarantee the long-term future of the Big 12. A cynical person just might. This is right on the money.
    · The financial disparity between the Big 12 and the ACC may very well not be what many others were projecting (including me). They may very well pay essentially the same at this point. Close enough. A lot of reasons for that, among them: moves the ACC has made since this talk started, apparent lack of interest in Big 12's tv partners in rewarding them for poaching the ACC, the playoffs not appearing to be stacked up to punish the ACC's recent weakness. Reasonable.
    · The difference between the ACC and the Big 12 financially was never the problem, the problem was the deficit between the ACC and the SEC and B1G. It does not appear that the addition of FSU+1 substantially closes that gap if FSU joined the Big 12. Reasonable.
    • As one of only two schools that could unilaterally blow up the ACC with it's exit, I suspect that FSU has decided that it's best bet is to stabilize the ACC enough so that if the B1G or SEC want an ACC school (and they do), they will have to come through FSU to get it. This is bull .There is no scenario that FSU in the Big 12 is better than FSU in the SEC or B1G, so there is no reason for FSU not to slow play it. Correct.
    • If that never happens, and FSU stays in the ACC as it stands today, I think FSU likes the upside of the ACC more than the upside of being the 11th member of the Big 12, based on recruiting grounds, population, and programs. Correct. Again, a six-school move probably changes that, but there simply isn't interest in that from either the Big 12 or potential moving partners. It's FSU+Miami to the Big 12 and stop, or play out options here. Nonsense.
    Now, if the B1G pulls Virginia, then it's all open again, that's about all there is to watch now, unless the SEC warms to FSU to get VT. Nonsense –UVA is not going to the Big 12.We're still staring at some serious revenue problems versus the SEC, and we'll know more about how bad it is when their network gets figured out an announced. Correct
    The ACC future isn't exactly rosy. Nonsense. There are some signs of hope, but there's no easy way to turn the tables right now vis a vis the SEC. Correct.But I don't think a move to the Big 12 can change that based on the current realities. Correct.I personally think if the ACC can stabilize, correct it probably needs to be thinking long term about options of actually going after Big 12 teams in the future to go to 20. I do not agree but it is reasonable statement. After a lot of thought, I believe 20-team, not 16-team conferences are the future. But I don't think that's something on the immediate horizon. He is not alone in that thought and while I do not agree it is certainly a reasonable statement.
 
well done crusty.

and thats how you have to read a lot of stuff nowadays.

and its where we lose a lot of people on here who want to believe or disbelieve an entire post, and cant see the trees through the forest.

Oh Lord
 
TexanMark said:
A lot of good thoughts in this essay...the comments have some excellent points.

Conference Realignment Roundup
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He assumes the Big 12 has 10 members? Then I check the date. This is from Jan 2013, when the Big 12 indeed had 10 members, with Texas and OU being the super valuable. `And his analysis is right that even then, the Big 12 was no more valuable than the ACC, which means that today without Texas and OU the Big 12 is not equal ion vklaue.

That said, it is also true that ESPN has proven that it can and will play nasty to help destroy a league tp get what it and/or its CHOSEn want from that league rot be destroyed. So what the ACC is today actually in value relative toe the bIg 12 does not mean much.
 
HtownOrange said:
Many people agree the Big 12 is already overaid and there was specific discussion of a clause that guaranteed new Big 12 teams the same current share but that the contract would NOT get a renegotiation with new teams, a la ACC deal which specifically includes a clause to re-open the deal (welcome abord Syracuse and Pitt).

As for the ACC going to 20 schools, for a long time I never believed it either but high ranking people in the B1G and the Big 12 have already floated this number. Many years ago, it was inquired of the NCAA about 24 member conferences, so somoeone was very far sighted.

Strategically, the B1G is less likely to secure the desired ACC teams without bringing aboard a few more. UNC, UVA and GATech seem to be the most wanted schools, but the B1G would have to destroy the ACC to wedge them out. You can probably through Miami into that group, too. They all want some southeastern partners, just as FSU does (unless they get and SEC invite, then it does not matter).
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The first time I ever read talk of a conference going beyond 20 was by a BT guy who reported that Jim Delaney had hinted that such was possible for the BT.

In have said for some time that I think the end game is either 2 Major conferences or 3, not 4. Whichever loses between ACC and Big 12 is going to be like the new Pac. And that at least the #3 league will have at least 20 members. I have felt that way for 3 or 4 years.
 
HtownOrange said:
Many people agree the Big 12 is already overaid and there was specific discussion of a clause that guaranteed new Big 12 teams the same current share but that the contract would NOT get a renegotiation with new teams, a la ACC deal which specifically includes a clause to re-open the deal (welcome abord Syracuse and Pitt).

As for the ACC going to 20 schools, for a long time I never believed it either but high ranking people in the B1G and the Big 12 have already floated this number. Many years ago, it was inquired of the NCAA about 24 member conferences, so somoeone was very far sighted.

Strategically, the B1G is less likely to secure the desired ACC teams without bringing aboard a few more. UNC, UVA and GATech seem to be the most wanted schools, but the B1G would have to destroy the ACC to wedge them out. You can probably through Miami into that group, too. They all want some southeastern partners, just as FSU does (unless they get and SEC invite, then it does not matter).
Expand...
I. Believe acc should go to 20. Su will beleft out if acc implodes
 

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