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Message: [QUOTE="SWC75, post: 4209216, member: 289"] The SU Media Guide lists 100 players who have lettered in all four years they played on the SU basketball team. 71 of them played their entire career since 1980-81 the first season for which the Media Guide has complete numbers. (Freshman were eligible in the early years- apparently through the teens, during the wars and from 1972-73 onward.) Eleven of those were walk-ons, (at least originally), so I dropped them from the listing. I decided to chart the improvement of those 60 players, in terms of “net points” per forty minutes, (NP is points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks minus missed field goals and free throws, turnovers and fouls), from their freshman to their sophomore years and then look at the top ten greatest improvements from the freshman season to the senior season in greater detail, (breaking down each component stat per 40 minutes). If a player played less than 100 minutes that year, the net points are in parenthesis. The next change from freshman season to senior is shown at the end, (unless they played less than 100 minutes as a freshman). Rafael Addison 13.8, 18.2, 17.7, 20.1 = +6.3 Wendell Alexis 14.7, 12.9, 16.2, 20.3 = +5.6 Adrian Autry 8.4, 8.7, 14.6, 16.8 = +8.4 Buddy Boeheim 9.9, 10.0, 13.5, 14.4 = +4.5 Derek Brower (9.2), 8.1, 9.0, 8.4 Damone Brown (9.8), 14.1, 15.9, 20.0 Todd Burgan 10.9, 13.1, 13.9, 16.2 = + 5.3 Billy Celuck (21.8), (10.1), 11.2, 4.5 Rakeem Christmas 12.1, 12.2, 13.8, 21.6 = +9.5 DaJuan Coleman 12.3, 14.5, 12.6, 13.3 = +1.0 Derrick Coleman 19.5, 27.3, 28.5, 26.7 = +7.2 Trevor Cooney 5.9, 11.5, 9.2, 9.5 = +3.6 Eric Devendorf 11.1, 12.4, 13.3, 11.0 = -0.1 (I used his medical redshirt year when he played 10 games) Marek Dolezaj 10.3, 9.9, 14.3, 13.9 = +3.6 Sherman Douglas 20.7, 21.1, 19.1, 20.3 = -0.4 Kueth Duany 10.5, 9.8, 13.3, 12.6 =+2.1 Michael Edwards 9.5, 6.5, 6.4, 3.2 = - 6.3 C.J. Fair 15.5, 14.8, 16.3, 12.7 = -2.8 Craig Forth 10.7, 8.2, 14.5, 14.4 = +3.7 Matt Gorman (0.1), (4.8), 9.6, 9.5 Allen Griffin 5.8, 8.0, 10.7, 11.8 = +6.0 Herman Harried -0.3, 7.7, 10.7, 11.8 = +12.1 Jason Hart 10.6, 8.9, 12.8, 12.7 = +2.1 Otis Hill 13.1, 10.6, 16.8, 17.8 = +4.7 Mike Hopkins 10.8, 4.8, 8.4, 10.4 = -0.4 Frank Howard 5.4, 10.8, 9.8, 8.1 = +2.7 Luke Jackson 6.1, 8.4, 11.7, 12.8 = +6.7 Rick Jackson 14.7, 19.2, 20.3, 22.1 = +7.2 Marius Janulis (2.7), 8.3, 9.8, 8.7 Scoop Jardine 9.0, 16.5, 13.0, 12.6 = +3.6 Kris Joseph 8.6, 16.6, 15.8, 14.0 = +5.4 Dave Johnson 6.7, 7.8, 18.3, 14.1 = +7.4 Baye Moussa Keita 11.1, 10.5, 11.7, 8.1 = -3.0 Scott McCorkle 14.1, 7.1, 12.5, 13.2 = -0.9 Gerry McNamara 12.9, 13.6, 13.3, 14.2 = +1.3 Jeremy McNeil 8.0, 12.0, 11.8, 11.0 = +3.0 Conrad McRae 10.6, 14.9, 14.0, 19.1 = +8.5 Greg Monroe 8.6, 7.6, 14.0, 14.5 = +5.9 Lawrence Moten 18.7, 17.4, 19.6, 16.6 = -2.1 Demetris Nichols 5.7, 7.8, 13.2, 17.9 = +12.2 Arinze Onukau 13.5, 17.3, 17.4, 18.5 = +5.0 Elvir Ovcina (14.6), 14.7, 9.0, 9.5 Josh Pace 13.5, 15.2, 13.5, 16.2 = +2.7 Andy Rautins 8.3, 8.9, 11.6, 15.4 = +7.1 JB Reafsnyder (17.1), 8.2, 11.2, 12.5 Tyler Roberson 7.5, 14.5, 15.4, 13.0 = 5.5 Terrence Roberts 4.1, 13.0, 14.5, 14.5 = +10.4 Erik Rogers (3.5), (7.3), (13.7), (6.5) Rony Seikaly 12.0, 17.0, 22.4, 21.1 = +9.1 Preston Shumpert 11.6, 14.1, 17.5, 18.3 = +6.7 Bourama Sidibe 7.5, 5.6, 15.8, 12.6 = +5.1 Lazarus Sims 2.8, 7.7, 10.3, 11.8 = +9.0 Dave Siock -0.3, 10.8, 3.8, 6.5 = +6.8 James Southerland 15.7, 13.0, 17.9, 16.4 = +0.7 Sonny Spera 1.9, 7.2, 10.2, (6.5) Etan Thomas 12.7, 19.5, 21.9, 21.8 = +9.1 Stevie Thompson 9.1, 16.0, 19.9, 15.6 = +6.5 Brandon Triche 12.4, 11.1, 13.9, 11.4 = -1.0 Howie Triche 7.2, (9.7), 12.3, 12.7 = +5.5 John Wallace 16.0, 20.3, 22.7, 22.6 = +6.6 Hakim Warrick 14.2, 10.1, 19.3, 20.5 = +6.3 Darryl Watkins (5.1), 16.4, 13.9, 16.6 The averages per year, counting only those players (50), who played at least 100 minutes in all four years: 10.5, 12.5, 14.8, 15.0. A four year guy will normally be a productive player when he first shows up: he won’t get lost in the crowd early. There is substantial improvement between the freshman and sophomore years but the biggest leap is between the sophomore and junior years. By then, the player is pretty much what he is going to be. The top ten improvements from freshman to senior: Demetris Nichols + 12.2 As a freshman: 14.2m 9.9p 5.3r 1.4a 1.4s 1.5b 19.5+ 7.2mfg 0.9mft 1.4to 4.3pf 13.8- = 5.7NP 1.8OE 3.9FG As a senior: 34.8m 21.8p 6.2r 1.8a 1.6s 1.2b 32.6+ 9.1mfg 0.7mft 2.5to 2.4pf 14.7- = 17.9NP 12.0OE 5.9FG A tremendous improvement in scoring: he made shots, (he missed a few more, too but he was taking more because so many of them were going in). He improved his rebounding, (which was pretty good for a jump-shooter), and made fewer fouls. Herman Harried + 12.1 As a freshman: 6.6m 7.4p 8.9r 0.8a 0.5s 0.3b 17.9+ 6.8mfg 3.2mft 3.2to 5.0pf 18.2- = -0.3NP -2.6OE 2.3FG As a senior: 10.8m 12.0p 10.4r 1.5a 1.7s 0.2b 25.8+ 4.3mfg 2.3 mft 2.3to 5.1pf 14.0- = 11.8NP 5.5OE 6.3FG Herm was a career reserve but that didn’t mean he didn’t improve during his career. He scored more while missing fewer shots, (they don’t always go together: look at Nichols), He rebounded better, had more assists and steals, cut down on the turnovers and even missed fewer free throws. Terrence Roberts +10.4 As a freshman: 7.6m 9.3p 9.0r 0.8a 1.9s 1.7b 22.7+ 6.4mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 7.6pf 18.6- = 4.1NP 1.0OE 3.1FG As a senior: 28.8m 12.4p 11.1r 1.7a 1.3s 1.9b 28.4+ 4.1mfg 2.8mft 2.6to 4.4pf 13.9- = 14.5NP 5.5OE 9.0FG Terrence was a popular choice on the thread about players who “didn’t pan out”. Often we make up our minds about players from first impressions: Terrence was a pretty good player by the time he was a senior. He just never became a good offensive player, which is what the fans focus on. I remember as a physically strong guy who played good defense and rebounded well. But we wanted a little bit more form our power forward. His stats basically improved across the board in his four years here, except for his free throw shooting. Rakeem Christmas +9.5 As a freshman: 11.5m 9.6p 10.2r 0.7a 1.0s 2.8b = 24.3+ 3.0mfg 1.1mft 2.2to 5.9pf = 12.2- = 12.1NP 5.5OE 6.6FG As a senior: 34.3m 21.6p 10.6r 1.8a 1.1s 2.9b = 36.7+ 6.2mfg 2.1mft 2.9to 3.9pf = 15.1- = 21.6NP 12.0OE 9.6FG Rakeem was always a valuable player. His interior defense, platooning with Baye Keita, was a key to the 2013 Final Four run. But, as big men tend to do, the reduced his fouls as his career went along. And he also developed a productive inside scoring game, the last we have had. Rony Seikaly +9.1 As a freshman: 25.0m 12.9p 10.2r 0.7a 0.6s 3.0b 27.4+ 4.2mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 6.2pf 15.4- = 12.0NP 6.3OE 5.7FG As a senior: 31.0m 21.0p 12.4r 0.8a 0.8s 3.1b 38.1+ 6.2mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 3.9pf 17.0- = 21.1NP 11.1OE 10.0FG A lot of people remember Rony as being awful when he first showed up here but he wasn’t. Like all our young big men he fouled too much but he was productive. He became a much better scoring threat as his career progressed and a better rebounder. Lazarus Sims +9.0 As a freshman: 7.4m 5.7p 3.0r 6.2a 2.4s 0.0b +17.3 4.6mfg 1.6mft 5.9to 2.4pf -14.5 = 2.8NP -0.5OE 3.3FG As a senior: 35.6m 7.1p 4.1r 8.3a 1.6s 0.1b +21.2 2.9mfg 0.7mft 3.6to 2.2pf -9.4 = 11.8NP 3.5OE 8.3FG Sims was never a statistically prolific player. He was never a great scorer: he needed to be surrounded by players who were. But he was a big, strong guard at the top of the zone. He greatly improved his passing, although he still had more turnovers than people remember. He was a turnover machine as a freshman and considerably improved but still had the same number as Scoop Jardine did as a senior. His numbers are very close to Michael Carter-Williams this year, (MCW’s assist to turnover ratio was 8.3/3.9), except he wasn’t a scorer. He was willing to take chances to pass for baskets but not to shoot for them. Etan Thomas +8.9 As a freshman: 16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG As a senior: 32.4m 16.8p 11.4r 0.7a 0.9s 4.6b +34.4 4.2mfg 2.0mft 2.5to 3.9pf -12.6 = 21.8NP 10.6OE 11.2FG As with Rony Seikaly, people remember him as a being terrible when he first showed up but he wasn’t. He never became a big-time scorer because he lacked a jump shot but he was a good inside guy and improved his rebounding and free-throw shooting while cutting down on the fouls. He was also one of the best shot blockers we’ve had, using his left hand so he wouldn’t have to reach across most player’s bodies to get to the ball. Conrad McRae +8.5 As a freshman: 9.3m 8.4p 8.6r 1.1a 1.1s 4.3b +23.5 2.4mfg 2.4mft 0.5to 7.6pf -12.9 = 10.6NP 3.6OE 7.0FG As a senior: 30.0m 16.4p 9.2r 0.6a 1.6s 3.6b +31.4 4.9mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 4.3pf -12.3 = 19.1NP 10.5OE 8.6FG People often talk about Conrad as if he were some kind of “flop”. Again, I think they confuse big scoring and quality play and tend to remember him more form the first time we saw him. He put up some serious numbers as a senior, although he probably could rebounded a bit better. I would love to have had him this year. Like all big men he had to cut down on the fouls and became a better scorer over his career. Surprisingly he had more turnovers but has a better scorer, he saw more of the ball on offense. He missed more shots for the same reason. He was a great shot-blocker but his blocks went down slightly through his career as he became more selective and a better overall defender. Adrian Autry +8.4 As a freshman: 33.2m 11.7p 3.1r 6.4a 2.4s 0.2b +23.8 6.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 4.0pf -15.4 = 8.4NP 4.6OE 3.8FG As a senior: 35.7m 18.7p 5.4r 6.8a 1.8s 0.4b +33.1 8.1mfg 1.0mft 4.3to 2.9pf -16.3 = 16.8NP 9.6OE 7.2FG Adrian came here as a highly rated point guard and was a big disappointment his first two years, ((8.4NP and 8.9NP). But then he became one of the best we’ve had, (14.6NP and 16.8NP). He was another big guard at the top of the zone. He wasn’t quite the passer MCW was but a better shooter, as Missouri found out in his final game, when he scored all 30 of his points after halftime in an overtime loss. He vastly improved his scoring in his career here but also became a strong rebounder from the guard position, (MCW was 5.5 per 40 minutes this year: Autry was 2 inches shorter and almost matched that as a senior. He missed more shots but was taking more as well. And he reduced his fouls, always the sign of a maturing player. Rick Jackson +7.4 As a freshman: 12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG As a senior: 35.6m 14.7p 11.6r 2.5a 1.5s 2.8b 33.1+ 4.3mfg 2.1mft 2.3to 2.3pf 11.0- = 22.1NP 8.3OE 13.8FG Rick didn’t have one stat where he improved sharply: he got better across the board. He did block fewer shots, probably because he was played more at forward as a senior. And, of course, he committed fewer fouls, although that was not as big a problem when he was a freshman as it was for other SU big men, perhaps because JB was using more and more zone by then. Dave Johnson +7.4 As a freshman: 14.6m 11.5p 5.5r 2.7a 1.3s 0.3b 21.3+ 5.2mfg 2.4mft 1.8to 5.2pf 14.6- = 6.7NP 3.9OE 2.8FG As a senior: 37.9m 20.9p 7.4r 1.6a 1.6s 0.4b +31.9 9.7mfg 2.0mft 2.9to 3.2pf -17.8 = 14.1NP 9.2OE 4.9FG Always an explosive athlete, Johnson found an outside shot as a junior, (and had an even better year than he did as a senior, (18.3NP). He also learned to use his strength and jumping ability to become a force on the boards. He missed a lot more shots, again because he was taking a lot more but, again, he reduced his fouls significantly. Jim Boeheim said DJ did the best dunk he’s ever seen: a 360 form the foul line to terminate one practice session, (nobody could follow that). [/QUOTE]

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