Final Fours since 1985 - Cuse on par with other great programs

[Cuseball]

People act like the number of Final Four appearances for the Cuse have been a great disappointment or much less than other top programs. Looking at the historical data it is not true.

The top 4 listed are the clear cut blue bloods. We have a lot of work to match their accomplishments and likely never will. That’s okay.
We are within range with everyone else and that is not a bad group of programs to be bucketed with at the 2nd level.

Teams with the highest number of Final Four appearances since 1985:
· Duke 11 times (4 titles)
· UNC 9 times (3 titles)
· Kansas 8 times (2 titles)
· Kentucky 7 times (3 titles)
· Michigan State 6 times (1 title)
· Florida 5 times (2 titles)
· Uconn 5 times (3 titles)
· Syracuse, Louisville (2 titles), Michigan, Zona, UCLA 4 times

The “once a decade” comment about making Final Fours averages out and holds true for most of this list. It’s tough to advance in the tournament and tough to win the title. Very few teams have been better at it than us. To take the next step, obviously another title is needed. The pieces have been close over the past 5 years and perhaps minus an injury here and a suspension there it could have happened.

Cuse!

 

[RichmondCuse]

To take the next step, obviously another title is needed. The pieces have been close over the past 5 years and perhaps minus an injury here and a suspension there it could have happened.

Cuse!

Well, I think you've sort of identified the real "problem" right there. People want another title, plain and simple. The regular season success that we've had over the past 5 years has only intensified that desire, because many people feel like with the teams we've had since 2010, we "should" have another title.

Bottom line, until Cuse has another banner to hang, many will be unsatisfied at the end of the season, whether that is right or wrong.

 

[Mstumpy50]

No teams that Syracuse has trotted out of there have been as strong as the 2010 team WITH Arinze and the 2012 team WITH Fab. The 2010 team I really think had a legit shot at winning it all. Final Four I think was a given considering how tight the game with Butler was. 2012 I think the team would have made the Final Four as well. Not sure they could have beaten UK but I sure would have loved to see it. What coulda, woulda, shoulda! The '10 team is a shame for sure because it was an injury that derailed them. The '12 team should have never wound up in that situation. Could have easily been avoided...I think but don't know all the gory details.

Either of those teams would have ran circles around the '11, '13 and '14 teams.

 

[sufandu]

I think the argument would be where the cut off line is between the top tier and second tier, because the group contains both. For me that line is between Kentucky and Michigan St.

The thing that's a little frustrating for me is that the three teams immediately in front of us got all of their final fours/championships after JB's first in '87. I wouldn't think UConn and Florida, while building programs out of nothing, should have been able to surpass our success in a relatively short time. That's disappointing.

 

[thebigeast44]

Good post. The only 2 teams that have outperformed us in making Final 4's that have had less McDonald's AA'S than us are Michigan State and UConn. I point that out because it's ultimately players that win championships. And the more talent you recruit, the more likely you are to make Final 4's and win championships.

If one would like to then argue that Izzo or Calhoun are better coaches than JB, that's fine. And if one would like to also argue that perhaps we should have recruited better, that's fine as well. However, it is not as easy to recruit the top players to SU as it is to the top 4 elite schools. JB has done a very good job recruiting. And an even better job coaching. When he has had a truly top talent, he's been to the Final 4 - 87 with DC etc, 96 with Wallace, 03 with Melo and 13 with MCW. Can you just imagine what he would have done with the talent the 4 elite schools have recruited?!

We are not in the category of the 4 elite schools. We are a near elite program, in the top 10, with a few other programs ahead of us. I'm OK with that. It's who we are. And 330 schools in Division 1 would love to be in our position.

Unrealistic expectations of your favorite team can lead to disappointment. For most of SU's history, realistic goals IMHO have been along the lines of: top 4 finish in conference, top 4 in BE or ACC tment and a sweet 16 appearance each year; once every 5 years have a team capable of making the FF4 and once every 10 years make the FF4. The last 5 years or so have raised those expectations a bit with all the wins we've had. And as pointed out, if AO had not been injured or Fab done his home work, we would have had a chance at a couple more FF 4's.

Fans want to win another championship as do the coaches and players. We will be in position to do so again. But as pointed out, it's not easy. You have to be good and lucky. Some programs never win one. Whatever happens, we'll always have 2003! Let's Go Orange!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, I think you've sort of identified the real "problem" right there. People want another title, plain and simple.

Goal posts have moved on that a little bit. Last year before the season started everyone was concerned that it's been too long since we got to a Final Four. So we got another Final Four.

:takes minute to move goal post:

But by golly we should have another 'ship, dammit!

 

[sufandu]

Good post. The only 2 teams that have outperformed us in making Final 4's that have had less McDonald's AA'S than us are Michigan State and UConn. I point that out because it's ultimately players that win championships. And the more talent you recruit, the more likely you are to make Final 4's and win championships.

If one would like to then argue that Izzo or Calhoun are better coaches than JB, that's fine. And if one would like to also argue that perhaps we should have recruited better, that's fine as well. However, it is not as easy to recruit the top players to SU as it is to the top 4 elite schools. JB has done a very good job recruiting. And an even better job coaching. When he has had a truly top talent, he's been to the Final 4 - 87 with DC etc, 96 with Wallace, 03 with Melo and 13 with MCW. Can you just imagine what he would have done with the talent the 4 elite schools have recruited?!

We are not in the category of the 4 elite schools. We are a near elite program, in the top 10, with a few other programs ahead of us. I'm OK with that. It's who we are. And 330 schools in Division 1 would love to be in our position.

Unrealistic expectations of your favorite team can lead to disappointment. For most of SU's history, realistic goals IMHO have been along the lines of: top 4 finish in conference, top 4 in BE or ACC tment and a sweet 16 appearance each year; once every 5 years have a team capable of making the FF4 and once every 10 years make the FF4. The last 5 years or so have raised those expectations a bit with all the wins we've had. And as pointed out, if AO had not been injured or Fab done his home work, we would have had a chance at a couple more FF 4's.

Fans want to win another championship as do the coaches and players. We will be in position to do so again. But as pointed out, it's not easy. You have to be good and lucky. Some programs never win one. Whatever happens, we'll always have 2003! Let's Go Orange!

That's some good perspective. It hurts a little that we didn't get back after '87 before DC graduated. The 87-88 and 88-89 teams may have been our most talented ever.