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Message: [QUOTE="billsin01, post: 251492, member: 837"] A few general thoughts on this discussion: 1. I'm not sure it's relevant as anything other than a discussion point. SWC did great research and arguments can be made but I so much of sports dialogue is wrapped up in ranking players and teams from different eras and who's elite and who's just good, etc. I really am not sure I understand the point. (that said I love commenting on it, so perhaps I'm answering my own question). 2. Not sure why Final Fours are the measure. If you want to say SU isn't elite or underperforms, etc., shouldn't it be national titles. Yes, I get that you'd rather make a final four than lose in the first round, but the basic point of the tournament is that there is one winner. That's everyone's goal. 3. Single-elimination tournaments invariably are small sample-sizes and often quite random. I mean, the name of the whole tournament season is March Maddness, for God's sake. I mean, upsets and buzzer beaters and tight finishes are what the month is about. I don't write off every loss to randomness, but it's not shocking to me that a regular season winning percentage doesn't necessarily equate to similar postseason success rates. 4. I think one subtle point people tend to miss is this -- do these teams' "struggles" in March suggest they underperform in March or that they overachieve in terms of wins during the regular season? Honestly, we win 20+ every single year and how many NBA stars have we produced in the last 25 years? DC, Melo ... is that the list? Siekely and Douglas had really good careers, Billy O certainly had the talent. Wallace was a very good offensive player. Hart and Etan had nice careers. But honestly, basketball often comes down to talent and while we've had more than our share of it, but Kentucky may produce more NBA studs in the last three years (Wall, Cousins -- even though he's insane, Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist) than we have in 25 years. 5. Name the bad losses in the last 25 years. Seriously, can't you count them on one hand? UVM, Richmond, obviously. Alabama was a frustrating one. Butler? Maybe but they went to the title game two years in a row. Missouri? Arkansas? MSU in their title year? Kansas with Collison/Hinrich, etc. vs. that damone brown team? Marquette? They beat us during the season, why would that be an upset in the postseason? I don't know, I think we tend to do OK but we've lost to some good teams. Are we elite? I don't know but recruits certainly seem to be thinking that these days and that's what really matters. [/QUOTE]

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