Foreign players

[SWC75]

Fab Melo...Chinoso Obokoh...Moustapha Diagne...


Should some sort of accommodation be made by the NCAA for kids who grew up elsewhere and came here because of their athletic abilities but couldn't yet speak the language? Or should they be held to the same academic standards as kids who grew up here and have always spoken the language?

Of course Rakeem Christmas was born in St. Croix and graduated early but that's part of the US Virgin Islands and I don't believe there was a language problem there.

I still like the idea of admitting that these kids are in college to play their sport and create a School of Athletics or Academy of sport and allow them to major in what they are here to do. then they could take academic courses in other things they will need to know, (public speaking, reading a contract, information about the tax system, etc.) as well as any remedial education they might need in the basics.

But until they do something like that, is there anything that should be done to give the foreign player a leg up? Or would we be cheating him if we didn't hold him to the same standards as anyone else?

 

[Cuse117]

They should be held to the same academic standards. I am studying in a different country and despite my course work being exclusively in english I am still forced to learn their language in order to qualify for the program. Sometimes life is just not fair.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Doesn't have to be all or nothing in my opinion. Have some kind of program for those who want to be athlete-students to give them skills relevant to pro career, but allow those who want to pursue Engineering, Management, etc. that option.

Every D1 school has classes just to keep athletes eligible, so the NCAA/P5 whoever should just stop the charade.

 

[andyw715]

Apparently UNC-CHeat has some special Student-Athlete program there.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Apparently UNC-CHeat has some special Student-Athlete program there.

Guarantee you that at least 10 other schools drastically changed their program once that news hit. I'm probably way too low on that estimate too.

 

[two3zone]

Or we stop going after these guys as they're obviously a risk to recruit and count on. It may not be their fault, but it's our fault if we keep getting bitten by this.

Like another poster said, life's not fair, we get that the NCAA is not fair, we get that the NCAA isn't going to change. It's time for us to change.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Fab Melo...Chinoso Obokoh...Moustapha Diagne...


Should some sort of accommodation be made by the NCAA for kids who grew up elsewhere and came here because of their athletic abilities but couldn't yet speak the language? Or should they be held to the same academic standards as kids who grew up here and have always spoken the language?

That depends on whether colleges are primarily academic institutions or sports franchises and pro ball prep labs.
If a college is primarily a school...then guys like Fab Melo really have no business being there.
He was utterly unprepared for an American college.
Can't speak about the other two.

 

[SWC75]

That depends on whether colleges are primarily academic institutions or sports franchises and pro ball prep labs.
If a college is primarily a school...then guys like Fab Melo really have no business being there.
He was utterly unprepared for an American college.
Can't speak about the other two.

Colleges train people to be doctors or lawyers. Why not train them to be professional athletes?

 

[pearl31]

Who the cares what the kid did in school before coming here. Did he adjust to the academic requirements of his U.S. high school? Is the high school a legit academic school? Did he graduate? Did he achieve the necessary college-entry test scores?

 

[AlaskaSU]

That depends on whether colleges are primarily academic institutions or sports franchises and pro ball prep labs.
If a college is primarily a school...then guys like Fab Melo really have no business being there.
He was utterly unprepared for an American college.
Can't speak about the other two.

should have went to central florida or unlv and majored in bar tending.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Colleges train people to be doctors or lawyers. Why not train them to be professional athletes?

because academics is about using your brain, not your body.

 

[SWC75]

because academics is about using your brain, not your body.

Why? Why make such a distinction? And the things they'd have to learn to be a professional athletes are as much mental as physical, (I've described them above).

 

[Briancuse]

That depends on whether colleges are primarily academic institutions or sports franchises and pro ball prep labs.
If a college is primarily a school...then guys like Fab Melo really have no business being there.
He was utterly unprepared for an American college.
Can't speak about the other two.

He also had no interest in trying to be a student either.

 

[cto]

Any student admitted to a college (athlete or non-athlete) has an obligation both as a student and a citizen of the campus community. With the exception Stanford, all D-1 schools have separate academic admission requirements for athletes. However, they all are supposed to be considered capable of doing their coursework and making normal academic progress.

Some foreign basketball student athletes have seized the opportunity to become good students and positive members of their campus communities. Close to home, of course, is Baye Moussa Keita who left SU with a prestigious award named after him in recognition of his all-around contributions. Baye knew zero Engllish when he came to the US for a year of prep school prior to entering SU.

The most striking example of such a foreign student athlete is probably Dikembe Mutombo, another young man who knew virtually no English before arriving here. While playing basketball at Georgetown (and majoring in diplomacy and linguistics), he interned at several government agencies, including a Congressional office. Since his graduation -- both during and after his NBA career, and before and after becoming a US citizen -- he has done extraordinary humanitarian work -- both in the USA and his native Africa. He was also the only (current or former) NBA player (not on the team) to attend both the Beijing and London Olympics to actively support the USA team. I found that incredibly touching in that he is a naturalized citizen.

Baye and Dikembe are obviously not the only foreign players who have taken seriously their obligations as students and members of the campus community, but they were the first two to come to mind.

My bottom line is that young athletes (whether for basketball, tennis, track and field, or whatever) should be given the opportunity to participate on the college level if they can demonstrate (via Toefl or some other process) that they appear capable of the required academics. If they do not meet that threshold, I think US colleges should not be offering them scholarships.

 

[pearl31]

Any student admitted to a college (athlete or non-athlete) has an obligation both as a student and a citizen of the campus community. With the exception Stanford, all D-1 schools have separate academic admission requirements for athletes. However, they all are supposed to be considered capable of doing their coursework and making normal academic progress.

Some foreign basketball student athletes have seized the opportunity to become good students and positive members of their campus communities. Close to home, of course, is Baye Moussa Keita who left SU with a prestigious award named after him in recognition of his all-around contributions. Baye knew zero Engllish when he came to the US for a year of prep school prior to entering SU.

The most striking example of such a foreign student athlete is probably Dikembe Mutombo, another young man who knew virtually no English before arriving here. While playing basketball at Georgetown (and majoring in diplomacy and linguistics), he interned at several government agencies, including a Congressional office. Since his graduation -- both during and after his NBA career, and before and after becoming a US citizen -- he has done extraordinary humanitarian work -- both in the USA and his native Africa. He was also the only (current or former) NBA player (not on the team) to attend both the Beijing and London Olympics to actively support the USA team. I found that incredibly touching in that he is a naturalized citizen.

Baye and Dikembe are obviously not the only foreign players who have taken seriously their obligations as students and members of the campus community, but they were the first two to come to mind.

My bottom line is that young athletes (whether for basketball, tennis, track and field, or whatever) should be given the opportunity to participate on the college level if they can demonstrate (via Toefl or some other process) that they appear capable of the required academics. If they do not meet that threshold, I think US colleges should not be offering them scholarships.

Thank you, well said.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Why? Why make such a distinction? And the things they'd have to learn to be a professional athletes are as much mental as physical, (I've described them above).

There are many professional athletes that have very limited mental abilities. To be a professional athlete does not require as much mental capacity as many would like to think. How many of them are back to where they started soon after their playing days are over?

 

[SWC75]

There are many professional athletes that have very limited mental abilities. To be a professional athlete does not require as much mental capacity as many would like to think. How many of them are back to where they started soon after their playing days are over?

It doesn't mean colleges can't train them for their profession just as they train people for another professions. The training they get as I've described above could help them avoid the fate you describe.

 

[RF2044]

It doesn't mean colleges can train them for their profession just as they train people for another professions. The training they get as I've described above could help them avoid the fate you describe.

Except that 99% of college athletes won't go on to have professional careers. So if that's what they're trained for, will they be equipped for what comes after sports and trying to earn income other ways?

 

[RF2044]

Or we stop going after these guys as they're obviously a risk to recruit and count on. It may not be their fault, but it's our fault if we keep getting bitten by this.

Like another poster said, life's not fair, we get that the NCAA is not fair, we get that the NCAA isn't going to change. It's time for us to change.

I'd hate to see it come to that. We've had some good foreign players mixed in with the bad over the years.

But if we are going to continue recruiting them [which by all indications, we will, given the globalization of the game of basketball], then I think we need to do a better job as a program vetting prospective recruits / commits. We should have a staffer who knows the NCAA guidelines backwards and forwards, who would be able to identify prospective red flags in academic profiles. That would enable SU [and the recruit] to be proactive about remediating gaps / issues, and not put things in the hands of the NCAA to render a disposition on the ambiguous.

This crap can't be allowed to continue happening.

 

[SWC75]

Except that 99% of college athletes won't go on to have professional careers. So if that's what they're trained for, will they be equipped for what comes after sports and trying to earn income other ways?

The training could obviously be for a career in athletics, which could include coaching, strength and conditioning, broadcasting,etc. You don't need to have a 100% placement rate to be a school of something.

How many of those athletes are getting jobs outside of athletics based on their college studies as it is?

 

[AlaskaSU]

The training could obviously be for a career in athletics, which could include coaching, strength and conditioning, broadcasting,etc. You don't need to have a 100% placement rate to be a school of something.

How many of those athletes are getting jobs outside of athletics based on their college studies as it is?

We already have a sports management program, communications, etc. Your original statement was about creating a program training athletes to be professional athletes. Granted that the difference between a minor league and a college is no longer clear. You are saying, lets throw in the towel and recognize that we are the minor league for football and basketball.

 

[SWC75]

We already have a sports management program, communications, etc. Your original statement was about creating a program training athletes to be professional athletes. Granted that the difference between a minor league and a college is no longer clear. You are saying, lets throw in the towel and recognize that we are the minor league for football and basketball.

let's recognize that we are training these guys for a profession. SU has already done that in everything but name only with the Falk school. Why not make it official?

 

[AlaskaSU]

let's recognize that we are training these guys for a profession. SU has already done that in everything but name only with the Falk school. Why not make it official?

I want to keep on thinking that college sports is primarily collegial. Maybe I am just nostalgic? Maybe, colleges should jettison this whole sports thing and let the pros take over?

Baseball is not a cash sport for colleges. The pros fill the gap by supporting a farm league system in three divisions, not unlike the divisions within the NCAA. They could do the same for basketball and football. Since those sports are cash cows the colleges hang on to the charade of collegiality. Every step taken to remove athletes from traditional academia just makes the charade more obvious. What would be the legitimacy of a course entitled, How To Blow $10 million dollars, taught by Alan Iverson, How to Cheat Bill Belichik and the patriots, How to Sucker Punch Your Fiance by Ray Rice, A Lazy Person's Guide to Free Drinks by Fab Melo? Would these moronic classes be open to all students? How about letting the pros manage the college teams as a farm league and pay rent to the colleges based on a percentage of earnings, with a floor that would subsidize smaller programs?

 

[SWC75]

I want to keep on thinking that college sports is primarily collegial. Maybe I am just nostalgic? Maybe, colleges should jettison this whole sports thing and let the pros take over?

Baseball is not a cash sport for colleges. The pros fill the gap by supporting a farm league system in three divisions, not unlike the divisions within the NCAA. They could do the same for basketball and football. Since those sports are cash cows the colleges hang on to the charade of collegiality. Every step taken to remove athletes from traditional academia just makes the charade more obvious. What would be the legitimacy of a course entitled, How To Blow $10 million dollars, taught by Alan Iverson, How to Cheat Bill Belichik and the patriots, How to Sucker Punch Your Fiance by Ray Rice, A Lazy Person's Guide to Free Drinks by Fab Melo? Would these moronic classes be open to all students? How about letting the pros manage the college teams as a farm league and pay rent to the colleges based on a percentage of earnings, with a floor that would subsidize smaller programs?

If it's a charade, why maintain it? And I obviously wasn't suggesting such ridiculous courses. I just see nothing wrong with training people for a profession in sports. There's nothing phony about that at all. Sports is a profession- for athletes, coaches, trainers, agents, broadcasters, teachers, etc. What's illegitimate about that?

 

[AlaskaSU]

The players that make the turn-styles click have little time for academics. The reason the charade continues is obvious. You were not suggesting phony courses but that would be their essence, sort of like everything you need to know you should have learned in kindergarten. Sports management and communication cover ancillary fields and relevant off the court skills. There are many classes in finance which cover money management. Unfortunately, the nostrum of academics first is a charade for the most promising athletes. Creating a major in being a pro would further divorce them from academia. Classes like sports management are of interest to a variety of students. Only a handful of students will become professional athletes. You are advocating creation of classes that only a handful of students would take and lacking a broader spectrum of students, there is a likelihood that the program would become a farce. I cannot think of anything relevant to being a good pro that 1) is not already offered and 2) that is worthy of academia. Respectful behavior is generally taught in kindergarten rather than the university.