Fouling Out

[HoustonCuse]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but it's on my mind:

Had Dion Waiters ever fouled out of a game in his SU career before the elite 8 last year?

Had Triche, in four years, ever fouled before last night?

Had MCW ever fouled out before?

And finally, what is the deal? I go back to 2010 and I don't think it is orange colored glasses to ask what is happening in these tournament losses. In NO WAY am I saying we would have won any of these games if they were called correctly, but seriously what is happening?

2010 Butler Sweet 16 - The Suplex. If called properly it would have wiped out an absolutely critical 3 for Butler and given us the ball back.

2011 Marquette Second Round - The backcourt violation. NCAA issued a formal letter saying they botched that call.

2012 Ohio State Elite 8 - Dion Waiters fouls out in (I recall) something like 20 minutes of game action. The team as a whole is called for more fouls than in any game this century except for the 6 OT game which was 30 minutes longer.

2013 Michigan Final Four - Absolutely egregious charge on Hardaway is called a block on MCW, ultimately leading to him fouling out. Charge called on Triche, also fouling him out, is universally called a block by neutral analysts.

 

[jdubs30]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but it's on my mind:

Had Dion Waiters ever fouled out of a game in his SU career before the elite 8 last year?

Had Triche, in four years, ever fouled before last night?

Had MCW ever fouled out before?

And finally, what is the deal? I go back to 2010 and I don't think it is orange colored glasses to ask what is happening in these tournament losses. In NO WAY am I saying we would have won any of these games if they were called correctly, but seriously what is happening?

2010 Butler Sweet 16 - The Suplex. If called properly it would have wiped out an absolutely critical 3 for Butler and given us the ball back.

2011 Marquette Second Round - The backcourt violation. NCAA issued a formal letter saying they botched that call.

2012 Ohio State Elite 8 - Dion Waiters fouls out in (I recall) something like 20 minutes of game action. The team as a whole is called for more fouls than in any game this century except for the 6 OT game which was 30 minutes longer.

2013 Michigan Final Four - Absolutely egregious charge on Hardaway is called a block on MCW, ultimately leading to him fouling out. Charge called on Triche, also fouling him out, is universally called a black by neutral analysts.

It is a disturbing trend. I really hope we just notice it more because we're Syracuse fans, and other fans feel the same way about their teams. But man, it is becoming a problem.

 

[jdubs30]

Triche fouled out against Detroit and Marquette this year. He also had 4 fouls 7 times.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Triche fouled out against Detroit and Marquette this year. He also had 4 fouls 7 times.

OK thank you for that. Makes me feel 5% better at least.

 

[HoustonCuse]

It is a disturbing trend. I really hope we just notice it more because we're Syracuse fans, and other fans feel the same way about their teams. But man, it is becoming a problem.

I read the IU board's game thread. They certainly noticed it last night.

 

[Ghost]

I read the IU board's game thread. They certainly noticed it last night.

I'm pretty sure everyone outside of UM noticed the end of game calls. I'm kind of over it, but it was still just a mish-mash of questionable calls.

Ultimately, I don't expect them to call Trey Burke shoving everyone around once the press started (there was twice it seemed pretty blatant), and all the off-arm pushing (although in the open court that seems like an easier call as opposed to when players drive in traffic and use it and it's never called), but considering all the griping, and the repeated use of that move it seems mind-boggling that you could miss that call on MCW.

Oh well.

 

[longislandcuse]

Numerous analysts have made mention of the end game officiating. It's not just us. The fact it ended our tourney 2 years in a row is disturbing. Instead of going after Doyel, I wish Boeheim would bring attention to it. The L'Ville fans in my area all thought we got screwed by the officiating. Like I said in another thread, I was ready to accept this loss because of our awful first half and inept offense wasn't enough yesterday, but to have a chance at the end due to our scratching and clawing only to have it taken away by the officials...again, is what is making this loss hard to take.

 

[kirbivore]

I'm pretty sure everyone outside of UM noticed the end of game calls. I'm kind of over it, but it was still just a mish-mash of questionable calls.

Ultimately, I don't expect them to call Trey Burke shoving everyone around once the press started (there was twice it seemed pretty blatant), and all the off-arm pushing (although in the open court that seems like an easier call as opposed to when players drive in traffic and use it and it's never called), but considering all the griping, and the repeated use of that move it seems mind-boggling that you could miss that call on MCW.

Oh well.

Trey Burke vs. the Louisville guards style of "defense" will be the unstoppable force vs. immovable object battle of guards fouling on every play.

 

[jdubs30]

MCW complains a lot to the refs, so I'm sure they don't do him any favors on some of those 50/50 calls.

 

[Ghost]

MCW complains a lot to the refs, so I'm sure they don't do him any favors on some of those 50/50 calls.

Yeah, I posted in another thread that I think that 4th foul was exactly that - the official telling him to shut up.

 

[007]

MCW complains a lot to the refs, so I'm sure they don't do him any favors on some of those 50/50 calls.

Thought the same thing. He was pleading for a couple of calls to the same ref earlier in the game. National stage and thin skin is never a good combination.

 

[007]

I am not trying to discount your point. But, I think every team that loses in the NCAA has passionate fans who believe that some/most of the calls were unfair. It is what it is.

 

[Ghost]

I am not trying to discount your point. But, I think every team that loses in the NCAA has passionate fans who believe that some/most of the calls were unfair. It is what it is.

I don't know - I'll still readily admit I thought UNC-Asheville got the short end of the stick last year - I think a lot of fans can tell when they get the advantage. It happens - we usually just don't discuss it, because we don't care when we get the calls. I think that's the biggest difference. Or if we do discuss it, you say "it evens out."

 

[SoBeCuse]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but it's on my mind:

Had Dion Waiters ever fouled out of a game in his SU career before the elite 8 last year?

Had Triche, in four years, ever fouled before last night?

Had MCW ever fouled out before?

And finally, what is the deal? I go back to 2010 and I don't think it is orange colored glasses to ask what is happening in these tournament losses. In NO WAY am I saying we would have won any of these games if they were called correctly, but seriously what is happening?

2010 Butler Sweet 16 - The Suplex. If called properly it would have wiped out an absolutely critical 3 for Butler and given us the ball back.

2011 Marquette Second Round - The backcourt violation. NCAA issued a formal letter saying they botched that call.

2012 Ohio State Elite 8 - Dion Waiters fouls out in (I recall) something like 20 minutes of game action. The team as a whole is called for more fouls than in any game this century except for the 6 OT game which was 30 minutes longer.

2013 Michigan Final Four - Absolutely egregious charge on Hardaway is called a block on MCW, ultimately leading to him fouling out. Charge called on Triche, also fouling him out, is universally called a block by neutral analysts.

Great post. It is perplexing and annoying. Like you say, we don't know if we would've won these games but the calls made major impacts. The OSU game was probably the least of the issues for me since Joseph was a disaster at the end of the game with those TOs pretty much sealing our fate.

 

[SUintheVille]

Probably Tim Higgins or Jim Burr told the FF refs how to screw Syracuse.

 

[Flacusian]

Certainly a thought provoking post. I think there's certainly a few kernels of truth in all of the above posts.

 

[anomander]

it's sad, but i've come to expect us to get screwed by the refs come the ncaa tournament. i really think we are the only fan base that actually has a fear of officiating, but that fear has been proven time and time again. i'm not sure where it comes from, but there has to be something to it?

 

[Hoov50]

Yeah, I posted in another thread that I think that 4th foul was exactly that - the official telling him to shut up.

He was incredibly lucky that his reaction to that foul call wasn't a technical. While I didn't agree with the original foul call I did think his writhing around on the floor deserved a technical.

 

[orangefan13]

1. 4-5 bad calls is nothing. I have seen us get 14-15 in some games literally. I also think the refs felt maybe they did us some favors and didn't want to give us the calls at the end because of it.

2. mich stopped mike with secondary defense in the the high post and slid with him extremely well all the way to the tin. Mike never used a long pass to get the ball inside or dished from the high post all game. That says alot about shutting down our point.

3. Southerland got 3 looks up top and took all three making one that is not good Southerland was a first go to guy like fair. Mike became a 3rd go to guy pushing 2nd option. 7 points combined = loss. I am sure I would give credit to michigans defense.

4. I don't see how anyone would want to get crushed by 20 instead of lose by 2 in a close tournament game. just my opinion though. Especially in a final four. I always want to know I could have won the game, always. I will feel much less dissapointed. Especially in the rond of 8,4,and championship.

5. Go ahead and argue. Mike earned those calls they deserved excessive arguing. Were not talking about one of the 25 plus bad calls(literrally) on keita this year where he gives a upset expression because hes moving alittle. We are talking about digging down hard to play guard defense. Mike is a first round pick and a team leader, therefore argue away. imo.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but it's on my mind:

Had Dion Waiters ever fouled out of a game in his SU career before the elite 8 last year?

Had Triche, in four years, ever fouled before last night?

Had MCW ever fouled out before?

And finally, what is the deal? I go back to 2010 and I don't think it is orange colored glasses to ask what is happening in these tournament losses. In NO WAY am I saying we would have won any of these games if they were called correctly, but seriously what is happening?

2010 Butler Sweet 16 - The Suplex. If called properly it would have wiped out an absolutely critical 3 for Butler and given us the ball back.

2011 Marquette Second Round - The backcourt violation. NCAA issued a formal letter saying they botched that call.

2012 Ohio State Elite 8 - Dion Waiters fouls out in (I recall) something like 20 minutes of game action. The team as a whole is called for more fouls than in any game this century except for the 6 OT game which was 30 minutes longer.

2013 Michigan Final Four - Absolutely egregious charge on Hardaway is called a block on MCW, ultimately leading to him fouling out. Charge called on Triche, also fouling him out, is universally called a block by neutral analysts.

I posted the same thing right after the game. The UM game officiating, while horrid, was nowhere near as bad as the Ohio State game last year. Waiters fouled out in 20 minutes of getting hacked by Craft and Southerland fouled out in just 11 minutes somehow! Meanwhile Baye, CJ, and I think Rak all had 4 fouls on them for standing there while Sullinger charged over them repeatedly. How often is CJ in foul trouble?

Saturdays game irritated me, last years game had me in a rage.

 

[orangefan13]

Thets not forget waiters had 2 in the first half quicker then sullinger and they all kept crying about sullinger like he deserved a huge second half. Yet waiters went nba 15 spots higher then sullinger...
What.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

It is weird that these unusual occurences happen in the important NCAAT games. And this was certainly the first game both BT and MCW fouled out.

Another weird thing is we were all looking forward to getting out of the BE reffed games and into the NCAA. But in the end the reffing got us.