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Message: [QUOTE="Cuseregular, post: 4075769, member: 185"] ok I'll give this point Graves had a good to great career contributing earlier than I recall (long long time ago). And, yes, lets stipulate that as I've noted in about 20 previous posts that at this point in his young career GS is limited and needs to improve. BUT the main point stands accurate, Marvin WAS limited just like GS at a similar point early on in his career, just in a different way: lets look at the numbers both first year in the program and overall careers to get an accurate comparison of where these two players stack up against one another year one and more. Both qb %'s come in at less than 60% overall for a career both in the 50%'s completion rates both first year (58% vs 53%) and the career. Graves played in the less than scary old BE and his first year with us still independent. GS played against SEC and ACC competition and despite this no comparison in competition the overall numbers still work in GS's favor by a long LONG shot. And as mentioned as he evolves hopefully it all get better. In GS first year here (3/4 of a season essentially) vs. Graves first full season here: MG has 1700+ yards passing but 9 td's against 11 Int's. In fact his overall career is 48 tds vs 45 ints. Not exactly stellar numbers. And again, against much much lesser competition. Shraders first year passing Td's is 9 against 4 int's. Career so far is 17 td's vs. 9 ints. That stacks up well vs. MG. Shrader in not even a full year for his first year here, year one rushing yards are more in that first year vs MG's ENTIRE career. GS in his less than a full season his first year here had 800 yards rushing with 14 more TD's. 5 td's for MG vs 14 year one for GS. Career hes almost at 1400 yards Rushing and 20td's. Graves entire career rushing yards is less than 300 yards, first year 155 yards! That is the definition of limited in my book MG had 17 td's his entire career rushing vs shraders 20 with with GS still having 3 years left to play. Overall total TD's year one MG had 14 vs. Shraders 23. So yeah we can do this all day but the numbers don't lie and favor my arguement. That’s an apples to apples look at things and not an apples to oranges. For some reason too many of you are not willing to give GS credit and his due. I for one don't get the self defeating message that sends. [/QUOTE]

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