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Message: [QUOTE="Zelda Zonk, post: 1617632, member: 966"] I (think I) like where you're coming from, but there are just too many specious arguments/misstatements of fact/illogical conclusions... You're lumping everyone together, which automatically invalidates your claim that people have decided hop isn't worthy of the position after 9'games. For the reasonable among us, it's not the "results" of the 9 games that troubles. It was that, even after so many years on the bench, he wasn't ready to make in-game decisions. Those mistakes made him look bad. People noticed, they commented, and the pre-suspension hype and confidence in hop waned. Natural reaction when expectations are so quickly dashed. People who don't like the zone don't like the zone. Do you expect them to mention it at the same frequency when it is less bothersome — in wins? No one complains about missing threes either when we win. "Old arguments?" The game itself is old. Do you expect them to generate new arguments for the same problems? The issues and concepts are the same. Are there ever any new arguments in favor of zone? JB's recruitment of players has never been infallible. We have made 'mistakes' on the same level of every other program. But, we get who we get and we don't get who we don't get. You're spinning it in the most ridiculous way, suggesting that JB gets who he wants, and doesn't look at anyone who could have been a better fit. That's insane. He brought success to "the sticks." This bothers me most of all. 34,000 fans in a domed arena. Thst is not The Sticks. It's New York. That is not The Sticks. Just saw a documentary about the Bills where Thurman Thomas was drafted to buffalo and when he arrived, he was looking for the skyscrapers. Thinking "it's New York, right?" People outside of NY don't consider Syracuse the boonies. And look at the rest of the recruiting world. Durham is no less 'stickier.' Ditto Chapel Hill. Kansas? Kentucky? Indiana. Other than UCLA, which other successful hoops program is in the middle of a 'burgeoning metropolis?' The best kids are now even going to prep schools that really are in The Sticks. Moot point. Not even a point. Just moot. And the dome is the best physical recruiting tool in the NCAA since it was built. Big advantage to JB, albeit somewhat diminished by the fact that we play a non-NBA defense in it. Kinda like a football team trying to recruit QBs and WRs when they play a Wing T offense. Individual players. G DOES miss too many fts. It's uncommon for such a good shooter to be so bad at this. But it fits our perennial theme, so it gets mentioned. We shouldn't notice? Lydon not strong enough in the post. Well, derp. No, he's not. Shouldn't be playing there. But someone saw a Golden State game and thought it was brilliant to have a small forward there so he tried it. It was brilliant for us too. For two games. And that Small Sample Size was fool's gold. Everything is someone's fault. Either individually or collectively. Sometimes, people recognize that it's 'bad form' to rip individuals or collectives for those faults. You don't know what drew us as fans? Seriously? I would posit that we are either students, alums, or residents of the area. Like any other collegiate fan base. I take issue to your implied characterization. That those who disagree with JB's principals think "they're smarter than him." First of all, yes, in general, I think I'm smarter than him. This first part reminds me of the argument I had with a moronic high school classmate who insisted that every professional baseball player was "faster than (me)" and must be 'because he's a professional athlete.' I you not. But, whatever. No one who disagrees with JB has to be smarter than him. They just have to agree with someone who is even more successful than JB who disagrees with JB. If you want a couple of simple examples, take K and Calhoun. Disagreeing with zone is merely agreeing with man, which has resulted in more success. What draws the fans? We used to play a fast paced, high wire game. We play in a building with 33k fans. That was enough to generate fandom nationally, back in the day. Half of that hasn't really been true for a while. "Sexually attracted to Otto?" You're off the rails here... Why are YOU a fan? You're a local, and chose the lazy man rationale for liking a team? 'They're Close and Familiar and all my Friends Like Them?' The Home Team refrain? IMO, that's the most lame justification, but whatever — you're still part of The Family. For townies or alums, it doesn't really matter. SU represents us, and vice versa, in some superficial way. That's our connection. And "for me, myself, personally"* — anything that represents Me is going to be subject to the highest level of scrutiny. Doesn't mean I like it less. It means I care more. [/QUOTE]

Verification: What is a Syracuse fan's favorite color?