Game obervations

[Cheriehoop]

Sorry in advance for the length of this but thanks to CTO I had the special opportunity to view the game up close and thought I'd share some random things I noticed.

I don't think I've ever seen an SU team struggle to get a decent shot off within the shot clock like they did last night. The hesitancy to shoot, make a play was shocking. We seemed oblivious to a basic requirement – knowing the amount of time time left in possessions. The offense was so stagnant, lacking purpose. Anyone remember the old kid's game "the wonder ball"? “The wonder ball goes round and round to pass it quickly you are bound, if you're the one to hold it last then the game is past and you are out". Sorry but that was my impression of our offense particularly in the first half. It was a frustrating game of hot potato.

The mental aspect of the game is too crucial. They can't allow a fear of failure, lack of confidence to take hold with a team that has little room for error. They have to regain a comfort level and just play, enjoy the game they love. They sure battle but it has to be more focused and consistent.

Perhaps it’s my vivid imagination but it seems to me that the level of physicality ACC refs allow our opponents is different than what we are allowed. I know I’m an admitted homer but I do hope I earnestly try to be fair when evaluating fouls. We definitely foul - usually the result of mistakes – not moving one’s feet, reaching, slowness in reacting etc. Our opponents seem to be allowed a level of aggressiveness and physical play in their basic strategy that we aren’t. Seems sometimes we’re being penalized twice for our own lack of physical play. We play basically a “containment” defense while ACC refs seem to be rewarding the more aggressive defense.

That said, despite defensive lapses, we’re still ranked 47th for points allowed (defense) despite 2 OT games and our obvious deficiencies inside; however we are a dismal 240th in scoring out of 346 D1 teams. Generating consistent offense is the real killer. We constantly missed matchup advantages on Clemson’s switches. It drove me crazy seeing 6’8” Lydon being guarded by #12 a physical 6’2” guard (who loved grabbing) but watching him never take advantage. Both he and Malachi had opportunities to post up much smaller players but never did. Our players just don’t seem to recognize and look for matchup opportunities. A bonafide point guard would certainly help but if players with mismatches don’t recognize the situation to cut/ post up, we will continue to struggle. Wish our guards Cooney, Mike G and Malachi could create for others and had better passing skills. Hoping Frank Howard will help when healthy.

Malachi is starting to become a force on the court (loved his work on weak side rebounding last night) and Roberson’s consistency the past few games has been encouraging. Looking forward to continued development since it will be crucial to our success while Cooney, Lydon, Mike G, DC continue to find a consistent groove. Unfortunately KJ has been TOO consistent. Enjoy the ride, try to fight the frustration, it’s all a process and not a straight line one either. Go SU!

 

[CusefanATL]

That said, despite defensive lapses, we’re still ranked 47th for points allowed (defense) despite 2 OT games

I wouldnt read too much into that stat. Its a benefit of our slow offense and the zone slowing their offense down a few seconds. But when Clemson needed a bucket, they got themselves a wide open deep 3 or an easy dunk or lay up at will.

because of how much deeper and better and more willing teams are at shooting 3's especially deep - it seems to have made the zone useless because our wings are now playing so far out its almost like a 4-1 zone. The only shot we have is with a great defensive center. And Lydon and Coleman are literally the opposite of that.

last night Wes durham (1 of the best in the biz btw) and the color guy just kept telling Clemson to feed it down low. Literally on every possession. And if it doesnt work the big guy could just kick it out for a 3 three feet behind the 3 point line that is hardly contested. and even if that misses they'll have a 50-50 shot at a long rebound.

 

[JOC44]

Good post, Cherie.

I agree that one of the biggest problems is that none of our guards really CREATES opportunities for others. Of course, that's why we have a shooting guard/small forward playing the point. I think the team generally has a low basketball IQ. I also noticed that Richardson was working really hard on weakside rebounding. Our forwards were way too slow at pinching in to cover behind Lydon when Clemson ran a high-post/low-post set, but Richardson worked his tail off on the boards.

In reality, this team just isn't very talented.

 

[jimsonjunction]

Great post Cherie. I agree with your frustration on fouls. Hand-checking is still far too prevalent in the college game. Cooney can't run from point A to point B without being practically knocked over, yet there's never any call. Conversely, he got called for two hand-checking fouls in the second half. Frustrating to say the least.

And yes, our offense is horrendous. Because of our personnel, I don't see a really good solution, but I was begging for more tempo last night. Force the issue on the fast break if we must. We have gotten into a tendency where we catch the rebound, wait for everything to clear out, and then bring the ball up the floor. If we aren't creating turnovers, we still need to seek easy baskets.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I wouldnt read too much into that stat. Its a benefit of our slow offense and the zone slowing their offense down a few seconds. But when Clemson needed a bucket, they got themselves a wide open deep 3 or an easy dunk or lay up at will.

because of how much deeper and better and more willing teams are at shooting 3's especially deep - it seems to have made the zone useless because our wings are now playing so far out its almost like a 4-1 zone. The only shot we have is with a great defensive center. And Lydon and Coleman are literally the opposite of that.

last night Wes durham (1 of the best in the biz btw) and the color guy just kept telling Clemson to feed it down low. Literally on every possession. And if it doesnt work the big guy could just kick it out for a 3 three feet behind the 3 point line that is hardly contested. and even if that misses they'll have a 50-50 shot at a long rebound.

Our defensive efficiency ranking is now 65. Allowing 97.7 points per 100 possessions.

Our adjusted tempo is a whopping 317. Holy where's the tylenol. Senior citizens in walmart scooters could play faster.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I wouldnt read too much into that stat. Its a benefit of our slow offense and the zone slowing their offense down a few seconds. But when Clemson needed a bucket, they got themselves a wide open deep 3 or an easy dunk or lay up at will.

because of how much deeper and better and more willing teams are at shooting 3's especially deep - it seems to have made the zone useless because our wings are now playing so far out its almost like a 4-1 zone. The only shot we have is with a great defensive center. And Lydon and Coleman are literally the opposite of that.

last night Wes durham (1 of the best in the biz btw) and the color guy just kept telling Clemson to feed it down low. Literally on every possession. And if it doesnt work the big guy could just kick it out for a 3 three feet behind the 3 point line that is hardly contested. and even if that misses they'll have a 50-50 shot at a long rebound.

The wings come up so high and our rotations aren't as quick as in previous years. The zone takes time to learn and playing a freshman despite how savvy, at the most important defensive spot in our zone, the center, automatically alters its' effectiveness. On JB's zone, as you noted, the center is key - he's always been the makeup for mistakes/weakness at any of the other positions. This year we have multiple weaknesses because of our reliance on freshmen new to the zone and players not playing their natural positions because of the holes in the roster.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Our defensive efficiency ranking is now 65. Allowing 97.7 points per 100 possessions.

Our adjusted tempo is a whopping 317. Holy where's the tylenol. Senior citizens in walmart scooters could play faster.

Every rebound I could hear Coach Hopkins yell "go, go, go" or "push it".

 

[FrancoPizza]

The wings come up so high and our rotations aren't as quick as in previous years. The zone takes time to learn and playing a freshman despite how savvy, at the most important defensive spot in our zone, the center, automatically alters its' effectiveness.

Then, that begs the question, why did we still commit to the zone before the season started? Nobody is suggesting to do a 180, but the handwriting was on the wall with this personnel... that some practice time needed to be devoted to mitigate the problems at center. We lost Diagne in the pre-season and we all knew the deal with DC, so there's no excuse. The scary thing is any roster evaluations and potential scheme adjustments probably were never even discussed. That's just an abdication of coaching responsibilities if you ask me.

 

[Toga]

Great post Cherie. I agree with your frustration on fouls. Hand-checking is still far too prevalent in the college game. Cooney can't run from point A to point B without being practically knocked over, yet there's never any call. Conversely, he got called for two hand-checking fouls in the second half. Frustrating to say the least.

And yes, our offense is horrendous. Because of our personnel, I don't see a really good solution, but I was begging for more tempo last night. Force the issue on the fast break if we must. We have gotten into a tendency where we catch the rebound, wait for everything to clear out, and then bring the ball up the floor. If we aren't creating turnovers, we still need to seek easy baskets.

That late one on Cooney - I think he brushed him with a fingernail.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Every rebound I could hear Coach Hopkins yell "go, go, go" or "push it".

He can yell all he wants. We have guards that just don't have the talent and makeup to finish at the basket on a break. I never thought I'd miss Triche the way that I do now. And he was the forum whipping boy on many occasions, but he was still a prototypical SU guard - strong, physical, taking it hard to the hoop and finishing through contact. Cooney tries to do this, but it's a miracle if the ball even reaches the backboard.

 

[br801]

The wings come up so high and our rotations aren't as quick as in previous years. The zone takes time to learn and playing a freshman despite how savvy, at the most important defensive spot in our zone, the center, automatically alters its' effectiveness. On JB's zone, as you noted, the center is key - he's always been the makeup for mistakes/weakness at any of the other positions. This year we have multiple weaknesses because of our reliance on freshmen new to the zone and players not playing their natural positions because of the holes in the roster.

Given the number of times Clemson shredded the zone for easy baskets and how SU seemingly had to grind for every point, I'm not sure how that game was all but in the W column.

 

[pearl31]

JB's mantra for the past several months has been, basically, that the team should win games if it makes 3s. Well, that was essentially debunked last night. SU made 13 threes on 38% shooting and still lost - to a mediocre team

 

[Kowbelkat]

Our offense is like running the infamous JB end of game stall the whole 40 minutes. If we are going to lose at least do it in an exciting fashion al la The Citadel

 

[suttree]

The wings come up so high and our rotations aren't as quick as in previous years. The zone takes time to learn and playing a freshman despite how savvy, at the most important defensive spot in our zone, the center, automatically alters its' effectiveness. On JB's zone, as you noted, the center is key - he's always been the makeup for mistakes/weakness at any of the other positions. This year we have multiple weaknesses because of our reliance on freshmen new to the zone and players not playing their natural positions because of the holes in the roster.

This entire thread captures a great deal of my frustration with watching the game last night--and really, most of the season. It's like Tom Crean is controlling us remotely. Our offense is either painfully torpid or devolves into freelancing when the players panic or feel rushed--and you're absolutely correct about the disparity in physicality. Another bewildering issue: our picks seem to accomplish almost nothing, whereas it seems that our opponents routinely rub our guys off successfully. Some of that has to do with being anchored in the zone vs. MTM freedoms, but there are lots of teams that manage to set picks just fine against man D. This way-overextended D we've seen from Clemson, SJU, and others is going to continue until we force/get some hand check calls and/or (preferably) have someone besides G (and sometimes MR) who can blow past his guy and force the chaos and opportunities that come from switches. Clemson seemed well prepared not to go for our up-fakes. The book on us must be easy and obvious by now.

I usually like agreeing with fellow counsel JOC, but I'm unhappy this time about joining him in seeing a low basketball IQ in our current team makeup. Can't get over how KJ has failed to progress, and even regressed in some senses; he looks utterly terrified out there and plays hot potato or just goes east-west for the most part. I'm hoping that an improved Lydon/Howard/Richardson group, plus Battle and Moyer, will give us the snap that we seem to lack so dreadfully this year. It's been utterly brutal to watch so many stretches of game so far.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Sorry in advance for the length of this but thanks to CTO I had the special opportunity to view the game up close and thought I'd share some random things I noticed.
Go SU!

Cherie: So that was indeed the back of your head that I recognized. Jim's white hair helped also.
Although I like to see ball movement, I can't get over how many very open looks we pass up only to take a bad shot when the clock runs out.
Perhaps the NCAA instructed the refs to penalize us some more; they sure are not calling the game evenly.
My biggest concern is that when we shoot, everyone stands around looking to see if it goes in. I learned to go the hoop and box out. We get very few offensive rebounds because there is nobody even in the vicinity.
Despite everything, we really had this one in the bag, but Derrick Coleman's missed free throw in the NC game still hurts more.

 

[pearl31]

We get very few offensive rebounds because there is nobody even in the vicinity.

I hear ya, but we actually pulled down 14 offensive boards last night and were pretty much even overall on the glass - combine that with 38% from three with 13 makes, there's no way we should have lost to a team like Clemson

 

[orangecuse]

Given the number of times Clemson shredded the zone for easy baskets and how SU seemingly had to grind for every point, I'm not sure how that game was all but in the W column.

So true. And, when you look at Clemson's stats for the game, 58% FG, 91% FT and 47% 3 point FG, it's rather amazing we practically had that game won in regulation.

 

[pfister1]

So true. And, when you look at Clemson's stats for the game, 58% FG, 91% FT and 47% 3 point FG, it's rather amazing we practically had that game won in regulation.

I had not looked at the box score, but when you look at those stats its amazing we were even in the game.

The other thing that shocked me is that Clemson was only credited with 6 offensive boards. It seemed like they had a lot more than that. They must have converted them all into points, making them more memorable.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

This entire thread captures a great deal of my frustration with watching the game last night--and really, most of the season. It's like Tom Crean is controlling us remotely. Our offense is either painfully torpid or devolves into freelancing when the players panic or feel rushed--and you're absolutely correct about the disparity in physicality. Another bewildering issue: our picks seem to accomplish almost nothing, whereas it seems that our opponents routinely rub our guys off successfully. Some of that has to do with being anchored in the zone vs. MTM freedoms, but there are lots of teams that manage to set picks just fine against man D. This way-overextended D we've seen from Clemson, SJU, and others is going to continue until we force/get some hand check calls and/or (preferably) have someone besides G (and sometimes MR) who can blow past his guy and force the chaos and opportunities that come from switches. Clemson seemed well prepared not to go for our up-fakes. The book on us must be easy and obvious by now.

I usually like agreeing with fellow counsel JOC, but I'm unhappy this time about joining him in seeing a low basketball IQ in our current team makeup. Can't get over how KJ has failed to progress, and even regressed in some senses; he looks utterly terrified out there and plays hot potato or just goes east-west for the most part. I'm hoping that an improved Lydon/Howard/Richardson group, plus Battle and Moyer, will give us the snap that we seem to lack so dreadfully this year. It's been utterly brutal to watch so many stretches of game so far.

Our guards, all of them, are dreadful at using picks properly. Most of the time they don't wait for them to properly be established, or they don't go close enough for the pick to be effective. It boggles my mind because supposedly our offense is based on pick and roll.

 

[bballbeadle]

Sorry in advance for the length of this but thanks to CTO I had the special opportunity to view the game up close and thought I'd share some random things I noticed.

I don't think I've ever seen an SU team struggle to get a decent shot off within the shot clock like they did last night. The hesitancy to shoot, make a play was shocking. We seemed oblivious to a basic requirement – knowing the amount of time time left in possessions. The offense was so stagnant, lacking purpose. Anyone remember the old kid's game "the wonder ball"? “The wonder ball goes round and round to pass it quickly you are bound, if you're the one to hold it last then the game is past and you are out". Sorry but that was my impression of our offense particularly in the first half. It was a frustrating game of hot potato.

The mental aspect of the game is too crucial. They can't allow a fear of failure, lack of confidence to take hold with a team that has little room for error. They have to regain a comfort level and just play, enjoy the game they love. They sure battle but it has to be more focused and consistent.

Perhaps it’s my vivid imagination but it seems to me that the level of physicality ACC refs allow our opponents is different than what we are allowed. I know I’m an admitted homer but I do hope I earnestly try to be fair when evaluating fouls. We definitely foul - usually the result of mistakes – not moving one’s feet, reaching, slowness in reacting etc. Our opponents seem to be allowed a level of aggressiveness and physical play in their basic strategy that we aren’t. Seems sometimes we’re being penalized twice for our own lack of physical play. We play basically a “containment” defense while ACC refs seem to be rewarding the more aggressive defense.

That said, despite defensive lapses, we’re still ranked 47th for points allowed (defense) despite 2 OT games and our obvious deficiencies inside; however we are a dismal 240th in scoring out of 346 D1 teams. Generating consistent offense is the real killer. We constantly missed matchup advantages on Clemson’s switches. It drove me crazy seeing 6’8” Lydon being guarded by #12 a physical 6’2” guard (who loved grabbing) but watching him never take advantage. Both he and Malachi had opportunities to post up much smaller players but never did. Our players just don’t seem to recognize and look for matchup opportunities. A bonafide point guard would certainly help but if players with mismatches don’t recognize the situation to cut/ post up, we will continue to struggle. Wish our guards Cooney, Mike G and Malachi could create for others and had better passing skills. Hoping Frank Howard will help when healthy.

Malachi is starting to become a force on the court (loved his work on weak side rebounding last night) and Roberson’s consistency the past few games has been encouraging. Looking forward to continued development since it will be crucial to our success while Cooney, Lydon, Mike G, DC continue to find a consistent groove. Unfortunately KJ has been TOO consistent. Enjoy the ride, try to fight the frustration, it’s all a process and not a straight line one either. Go SU!

Cherie, no one should ever apologize for the length of a post on this board, especially you! Interesting observations up close, particularly about the "wonder ball." That was so apt! That was the hardest thing to watch last night, their reluctance to shoot and time management. Surely, Boeheim sees it as well? I can only hope he addresses it with the team in a manner that will help them overcome fear and feel confidence.

 

[Madbiker]

How many possessions did we have where the shot clock was winding down to the last 3 seconds? Many. There's just no penetration. The ball just goes around the perimeter until either Malachi drives it or Cooney puts up a bad desperation long 3. Lydon and Roberson rarely look to score and pass up open shots.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I had not looked at the box score, but when you look at those stats its amazing we were even in the game.

The other thing that shocked me is that Clemson was only credited with 6 offensive boards. It seemed like they had a lot more than that. They must have converted them all into points, making them more memorable.

Hard to get a lot of offensive boards when your first shot goes in.

 

[RoysRunts]

No energy or intensity start of the game The Zone helps cause that listlessness. How many times did you see 4 offensive players move without the ball , a lot of standing around,watching the show.

 

[SoBeCuse]

How many possessions did we have where the shot clock was winding down to the last 3 seconds? Many. There's just no penetration. The ball just goes around the perimeter until either Malachi drives it or Cooney puts up a bad desperation long 3. Lydon and Roberson rarely look to score and pass up open shots.

It's happening so much the past three seasons. It's a god damn embarrassment.

 

[Ghost]

Our guards, all of them, are dreadful at using picks properly. Most of the time they don't wait for them to properly be established, or they don't go close enough for the pick to be effective. It boggles my mind because supposedly our offense is based on pick and roll.

This has been an issue of late - it is strange. We never come close - the screener draws the defense over, and then we reset. Nobody effectively uses it.