Have we lost our "Underdoghood"? (long)

[VaBeachOrFan]

You know the familiar themes of disgruntled rants on this board as we denigrate -- possibly through envy -- the Big Four Elite of college basketball: Kentucky, Kansas, UNC and Duke.

• The McDonald's tournament just copies its invite list off the incoming Duke/UNC roster.
• UK gets the finest players money can buy.
• Kansas would be fighting for fifth place if it played in the old Big East.
• High school players get an extra star in ranking after they sign with one of these programs.

Well, for as long as SU has aspired to become an Elite Program (and I've watched the program's growth for 35-odd years and the evolution is truly impressive), SU fans like me have felt comfortable in our Rodney Dangerfield rhetoric . . . perhaps until this year.

Maybe the move to the ACC just accelerated the inevitable outcome of this evolution -- that we have sought to become one of the basketball blue bloods and, suddenly, we have become one of The Ones We Hate. How could this happen? In recent years, JB and Co. have recruited better and better players, up to and including 4-5 star players. They've recruited to their system and have remained consistent in execution. They've used redshirting wisely to mix in some "development" players who then stick around to provide senior leadership. And, finally, they now book top-shelf players two years out, selecting from a top crop of players who truly desire to play for the Orange. What could be better?

Except that now every team we play is looking to cut a notch in their sneakers by beating us. It didn't use to be that way when we were "just another Big East team," but joining the ACC put every one of our opponents on high adrenaline alert, especially when we threatened to win the league the first year out!

Now I'm a fan who enjoys Underdoghood. I've always hated the Yankees and the Dallas Cowboys. As an SF Giants fan who loathed the Dodgers just for being from LA, I ratcheted up my wrath when they became the West Coast Yankees, trying to buy class with cash.

So I don't know what to make of the Old Guard reaction to SU's basketball march into ACC-land. I'm not sure I'm ready to be an Overdog fan. It's the culture shock of one who's gotten what he wished for. Must adapt, must adapt, must adapt.-VBOF

 

[CousCuse]

Syracuse has never been just another Big East team.

 

[OrOrange44]

You know it may have accelerated this year but I think everyone we play puts special emphasis into beating us and always have
And its a credit to JB and what he has developed...AMAZING consistency...we are good or great every year
Its always fun to knock off one of the topdogs

OO44

 

[bballbeadle]

I love the expression "Overdog!" And "we have become the ones we hate!" Excellent writing, and nailing the dilemma for many of us. Perhaps a variation could be that" we are the ones that we have been waiting for?" At any rate, I am sick of Underdog and I am ready and willing to dump him!

-Polly Pureheart

 

[tbonezone]

we are and have been for a while the exact opposite of underdog. we are instead a top program who can lose to anybody.

 

[OrangeTown]

You call that long? I've got this guy named SWC I would like you to meet...

 

[Czar]

The people here who see Syracuse as an outsider, that we don't benefit in recruiting rankings, and all that other bull that people whine about Duke and Kentucky getting always amused me.

We've never had an underdoghood, and we haven't had one since the 80's.

 

[dollarbill44]

We've never had an underdoghood, and we haven't had one since the 80's.

So, have we or haven't we had an "underdoghood"?

 

[pulaski74]

I love the expression "Overdog!" And "we have become the ones we hate!" Excellent writing, and nailing the dilemma for many of us. Perhaps a variation could be that" we are the ones that we have been waiting for?" At any rate, I am sick of Underdog and I am ready and willing to dump him!

-Polly Pureheart

polly purebred

 

[MadNY3]

Syracuse Basketball is nowhere near an underdog anymore. Strong performance, selling out visitor arenas and Boeheim making national headlines by saying random stuff would be my evidence.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I stopped reading after the comment about Kansas in the old Big East.

 

[ImperialOrange]

To me one of the great parts of being a Syracuse fan is the dichotomy between how we're viewed during lax, hoops, and football. Lax we expect to win every game and hoops it is almost the same level though we (as a fan base) are always overly aware of our flaws. In football we hope we can win most games despite our flaws but you get a reality check from the contrasting reactions when you say you're a Cuse fan depending on the sport being discussed. I love that Orange fans are steadfast regardless of sports or odds though unlike most other schools that only claim to be die hard fans during one particular season. It makes me appreciate Syracuse that much more.

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

I stopped reading after the comment about Kansas in the old Big East.

Flashback: SU's 2003 tournament run crowned them unofficial Big 12 champs.-VBOF

 

[HOFCeluck]

Flashback: SU's 2003 tournament run crowned them unofficial Big 12 champs.-VBOF

Oh, well I guess that changes everything?

 

[DoctorBombay]

Its a dichotomy between the perception from the "outside looking in", & the classic Syracuse insecurity.
I remember visiting a friend on the campus of UofMiami back in the 80's and going to shoot hoops in their on-campus gym. When folks learned I went to SU, they all started asking me about Pearl and Sherm, the Dome, JB, and our rivalry w/ GTown. This was BEFORE the U joined the BE. There was nothing but praise and envy for our program, and thats happened many more more times whenever I've traveled both domestically and internationally.
Folks in Syracuse however, still view us as that guy w/ a chip on his shoulder...who doesn't quite measure up and has to always prove himself. To our own fans, even when you recite the growing list of program accomplishments, you always get the "Yeah, but..." guy.
Those folks are like Sally Field getting Best Actress and going on about; "You like me...you really like me". That need for constant validation by some in our fanbase, is plain idiotic IMO.

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

Its a dichotomy between the perception from the "outside looking in", & the classic Syracuse insecurity.
I remember visiting a friend on the campus of UofMiami back in the 80's and going to shoot hoops in their on-campus gym. When folks learned I went to SU, they all started asking me about Pearl and Sherm, the Dome, JB, and our rivalry w/ GTown. This was BEFORE the U joined the BE. There was nothing but praise and envy for our program, and thats happened many more more times whenever I've traveled both domestically and internationally.
Folks in Syracuse however, still view us as that guy w/ a chip on his shoulder...who doesn't quite measure up and has to always prove himself. To our own fans, even when you recite the growing list of program accomplishments, you always get the "Yeah, but..." guy.
Those folks are like Sally Field getting Best Actress and going on about; "You like me...you really like me". That need for constant validation by some in our fanbase, is plain idiotic IMO.

Ah, my point exactly. Our growing success is forcing us to choose roles. I'd say the all-time "Big Five" elite programs are now Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC and Syracuse, though I'm sure ESPN analysts might not agree. Sadly, perhaps for traditionalists, UCLA and Indiana are no longer in that group, IMHP.-VBOF

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'd say the all-time "Big Five" elite programs are now Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC and Syracuse, though I'm sure ESPN analysts might not agree. Sadly, perhaps for traditionalists, UCLA and Indiana are no longer in that group, IMHP.-VBOF

LOL.

So after joining the ACC we've gone from underdog to on UNC and Kentuckys level?

Is this a serious thread?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Its a dichotomy between the perception from the "outside looking in", & the classic Syracuse insecurity.
I remember visiting a friend on the campus of UofMiami back in the 80's and going to shoot hoops in their on-campus gym. When folks learned I went to SU, they all started asking me about Pearl and Sherm, the Dome, JB, and our rivalry w/ GTown. This was BEFORE the U joined the BE. There was nothing but praise and envy for our program, and thats happened many more more times whenever I've traveled both domestically and internationally.
Folks in Syracuse however, still view us as that guy w/ a chip on his shoulder...who doesn't quite measure up and has to always prove himself. To our own fans, even when you recite the growing list of program accomplishments, you always get the "Yeah, but..." guy.
Those folks are like Sally Field getting Best Actress and going on about; "You like me...you really like me". That need for constant validation by some in our fanbase, is plain idiotic IMO.

A lot of people compare us to the blue bloods and think it's our right to join them without realizing that that's the top 1% of the sport. We aren't at that level, but we are REALLY good.

It may take JB stepping down for some fans to awaken to that fact.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I don't think Syracuse has had any kind of underdog status for decades. An interesting take is my wife who was a college basketball fan before I met her (western US upbringing). Without having any specific information she had the impression that Syracuse had won many national championships and held them at the same level of the blue blood type programs. That was in '93.

 

[DoctorBombay]

A lot of people compare us to the blue bloods and think it's our right to join them without realizing that that's the top 1% of the sport. We aren't at that level, but we are REALLY good.

It may take JB stepping down for some fans to awaken to that fact.

I'd have to agree w/ this, and therein lies the rub. There's a fine line between "we belong", and "we're not worthy". My perception is that alot of our own fans are in the latter group.

 

[Hoo's That]

You guys can't imagine how great we felt in 1984 when we beat you, one of the burger boy-loaded Big Dogs of basketball, in the East semis.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

You call that long? I've got this guy named SWC I would like you to meet...

thats what she said.

 

[Jasoncuse]

We'll be the underdog next year