HCDM real recruiting assessment

[orangenauburn]

2009: 4-8 (shoulda, coulda, been 6-6 (bowl?)
2010: 7-5 / Pinstripe victory 8-5
2011: started 5-2, finished 5-7 ... choked away Rutgers and UConn game

I think it is clear talent, though lacking in key areas, was not as bad as we thought after GRob was fired ... he was just a bad coach

Now we are at the point where we see what HCDM is made of. We are starting the transition from GRob recruits to HCDM recruits -- imo 2012 will probably be similar to 2011 due to the transition phase (GRob's last year was a mess recruiting wise and HCDM first year was part of that, thus the dip). 2013 is the key year to gauge HCDM recruiting / coaching up.

 

[SoBristol]

If Doug were an outstanding recruiter (say, like Charlie Strong; or our Coach Mac back in his 3rd year), you would see positive signs at this stage. You would already see examples of landing a few guys who were offered by Pitt, or BC, or Md, or even PSU.

If Doug is an average recruiter, you would be saying that it takes a few years to fill out the roster or see significant upgrades over GROB's guys.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If Doug were an outstanding recruiter (say, like Charlie Strong; or our Coach Mac back in his 3rd year), you would see positive signs at this stage. You would already see examples of landing a few guys who were offered by Pitt, or BC, or Md, or even PSU.

If Doug is an average recruiter, you would be saying that it takes a few years to fill out the roster or see significant upgrades over GROB's guys.

I feel this is true.

 

[Cuse4Life]

Guys, if you look back on the past 10 years of recruiting at TOS youll see Marrone has out recruited in the past two years than any of those other years. We currently have 12 3 or 4 stars and last year we had 13 3 or 4 stars...in the 10 years before we had one year (2002) where we had 10 3 stars or better on the roster...Marrone still has 3 or 4 more guys that he can get in this year and Im assuming atleast 2 should be 3 stars

 

[kcsu]

I actually think that Doug is a better recruiter than coach

 

[Rocco]

Now we are at the point where we see what HCDM is made of. We are starting the transition from GRob recruits to HCDM recruits -- imo 2012 will probably be similar to 2011 due to the transition phase (GRob's last year was a mess recruiting wise and HCDM first year was part of that, thus the dip). 2013 is the key year to gauge HCDM recruiting / coaching up.

^^^This, I agree with. Are you John Syracuse?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Guys, if you look back on the past 10 years of recruiting at TOS youll see Marrone has out recruited in the past two years than any of those other years. We currently have 12 3 or 4 stars and last year we had 13 3 or 4 stars...in the 10 years before we had one year (2002) where we had 10 3 stars or better on the roster...Marrone still has 3 or 4 more guys that he can get in this year and Im assuming atleast 2 should be 3 stars

I will say, I have been pleased to see that the number of 3 stars we are getting seems to be increasing. I don't expect that we'll ever be a program with classes dominated by 4 and 5 star guys, but I do think for us to be where we want as a program we need to trend towards classes filled with 3 stars and a few select 2 star guys sprinkled in as opposed to classes filled with 2 stars and a few 3 or better star guys sprinkled in, and it does appear as though we're moving that way.

If we really do end up with a very good class next season I would say that almost outweighs whatever the team does on the field in terms of assessing Marrone as a longer term coaching candidate.

 

[qdawgg]

I will say, I have been pleased to see that the number of 3 stars we are getting seems to be increasing. I don't expect that we'll ever be a program with classes dominated by 4 and 5 star guys, but I do think for us to be where we want as a program we need to trend towards classes filled with 3 stars and a few select 2 star guys sprinkled in as opposed to classes filled with 2 stars and a few 3 or better star guys sprinkled in, and it does appear as though we're moving that way.

If we really do end up with a very good class next season I would say that almost outweighs whatever the team does on the field in terms of assessing Marrone as a longer term coaching candidate.

I agree with this - I would just add that if he is able to pull in the class we think (or better - cross fingers) it really shows the progress the staff has made in recruiting especially when considering how terrible the team looked this year, even in wins (not counting WV).

If we can get a couple years of classes like this then it will help to settle the argument of whether it's play-calling or talent holding us back - this part is meant more for the offense.

 

[Symphony Steve]

I actually think that Doug is a better recruiter than coach

I think you may be right. Or, at least, I think he may enjoy recruiting more than all that goes along with being a HC.

He said something earlier this year that struck me. I don't have the exact quote, but I commented on it at the time. During an off week, he said that he was looking forward to going on the road to recruit as a way to 'recharge my batteries'. I said that I was worried that he needed to get away from coaching to recharge, as it implied that being HC was running down those batteries. Many have written on this board about Doug seeming to be uptight and needing to loosen up.

I have a couple of suggestions. In order to put him in a better position to succeed, maybe TGD can work with Doug to lessen some of the administrative things that seem to be running him down, and/or to help provide tools to address the stress.

Second, we all know that HCDM made his bones as an O-line coach, and his players from the Jets and Saints raved about his coaching. We've got some real good OL prospects now, and I think Doug would do well to become more hands-on with them. We've read that some players were surprised that he wasn't doing as much coaching there as they'd expected. We know that Doug loves doing it. Help free him from some of the negative stuff, and let him get back to hands-on coaching. It may not be traditional, but it would provide him/us the best chance for success.

Otherwise, if he can't change his ways, he could be headed for coaching burnout, which obviously would not be good for him or the program.

 

[rosconey]

if he is burned out after just 3 years he isnt head coach material-

after this year im also not so sure

lets hope he makes me eat my woods next year- i would love to be shown to be a ahole-i just dont hold any hope after 3 years of his offensive style

 

[JoeSU]

If Doug were an outstanding recruiter (say, like Charlie Strong; or our Coach Mac back in his 3rd year), you would see positive signs at this stage. You would already see examples of landing a few guys who were offered by Pitt, or BC, or Md, or even PSU.

I think you need to consult our commit list and their offers.

 

[chakka3421]

I actually think that Doug is a better recruiter than coach

Blah, blah, blah

 

[kcsu]

chakka Christmas is over it is time to head outside and take down your wreath and Fat head poster of Doug

Blah, blah, blah

 

[kingottoiii]

Second, we all know that HCDM made his bones as an O-line coach, and his players from the Jets and Saints raved about his coaching. We've got some real good OL prospects now, and I think Doug would do well to become more hands-on with them. We've read that some players were surprised that he wasn't doing as much coaching there as they'd expected. We know that Doug loves doing it. Help free him from some of the negative stuff, and let him get back to hands-on coaching. It may not be traditional, but it would provide him/us the best chance for success.

I think he needs to hire an OC and go back to just being a CEO like he was in year 1. Let him concentrate on the OL (his specialty) and recruiting. If he does that I can see him being here 20 years. If he continues to let the OL be coached by a recruiter and continues to burn him self out by trying to square peg his O, he won't last past 6 years tops.

 

[PhatOrange]

If Doug were an outstanding recruiter (say, like Charlie Strong; or our Coach Mac back in his 3rd year), you would see positive signs at this stage. You would already see examples of landing a few guys who were offered by Pitt, or BC, or Md, or even PSU.

If Doug is an average recruiter, you would be saying that it takes a few years to fill out the roster or see significant upgrades over GROB's guys.

To date this years kids with BCS offers (11 of 17 high schoolers)

Joshua Parris
(O) Virgina Tech, Mississippi, Boston College, South Florida, Vandy, Virginia, West Virginia,

James Washington
(O) South Carolina, WVU, Illinois, Pitt, Purdue, BC, Duke, Iowa State, Vandy, Michigan State, Cincy,

Jason Emerich (O) Pittsburgh, Connecticut, Central Florida,
Harold Brantley (O) Penn State, Rutgers, West Virginia,
Kyle Knapp (O) Cincinnati,
Tashon Whitehurst (O) NC State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, Rutgers, South Florida,
Ron Thompson (O) Michigan, Illinois, Maryland, Indiana, Vandy
George Morris (O) Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Utah
Alvin Cornelius (O) Vandy
DeVante McFarlane (O) Vandy
Dontez Ford (O) Vandy

 

[007]

I still believe that talent is THE major factor in the fate of the program, and that the level of that talent needs to be judged relative to the talent of others in the conference. Obviously, the relative basis of comparison will now be the ACC. The bar has been raised considerably. SU will need a major up swing in recruiting success to be even reasonably competitive in the ACC, IMO.

As a random frame of reference of current recruiting success, I looked at final standings in the ACC and then looked for a second level tier team - thinking I would pick someone finishing 3rd or 4th in their respective division. Virgina fit that criteria (finished 3rd in Coastal and seemed like a reasonably similar program to compare SU. As per Rivals database, Virginia currently has a class of 25 with 15, 3 stars, and 4, 4 stars. Overall class rank of #23 in the country.

Wake Forest finished 3rd in the Atlantic. They currently have a class of 16, with 12, 3 stars and 0, 4 stars. That is currently the lowest ranked class in the ACC.

Rivals currently has Syracuse with a class of 18, with 11, 3 stars and 0, 4 stars. That is second to last in the BE behind only UCONN, and ostensibly similar to Wake's class.

Finally, I looked at Maryland & Duke, each finished last in the ACC, with 1-7 records. Maryland has a class of 20, with 11, 3 stars and 2, 4 stars. Duke has a class of 18, with 9, 3 stars and 1, 4 star.

On this one admittedly subjective comparison, SU appears to be bringing in "talent" comparable, or below, the bottom of the ACC.