Hear me out...

[Orange Rust Belt]

While I am not a consistent contributor, I have been a consistent lurker of the forums for a decade or so. I'll openly come out and admit that I am 24 years old and do not have in-depth knowledge of decades of Syracuse football history like many of you have. That being said, I am a born and raised local, season ticket holder, and son of parents who are both born and raised locals and Syracuse alums. I am a Central New Yorker at heart. Always will be. But that's beside the point...

The point is that regardless of the "success" this program has had post Grob, the current state of the program is absolutely laughable. Love me some Bowl games. Love me some Bowl wins. But the reality is that's a mirage when you seriously evaluate the overall state of the football team. Saint Doug, while a semi-credible coach given his resume (and I am a big Bills fan), utilized mostly Robinson recruits to achieve his success while at SU. Marrone's recruiting was subpar, and the results of his efforts on that front are clearly obvious. Our cupboard is empty, especially on offense. We have a giant RB playing QB, our best WR is a converted QB, enough average RB's to start a small army, zero offensive lineman to write home about besides MAYBE Hickey (completely exposed vs Notre Dame), and I couldn't even name you one of our TE's because they don't exist in a McDonald offense. Which brings me to the biggest issue of all...

We have arguably the worst offensive coordinator in power conference D1 football. Put aside all of the faults we have talent wise. Running 30 screen plays a game is what sinister drunk people do playing Madden video games when they can't figure out how to exit out of the formation. Completely unacceptable play calling at any level of collegiate football. We have one formation. Shotgun. The strength of this team is running the football, and yet McDonald completely negates our ability to establish a true running game by calling the same damn running play every time. IT'S EXTREMELY PREDICTABLE. Hell, maybe just ONCE put TWO RB's in the backfield in the shotgun to keep the defense guessing just a wee little bit. God forbid Hunt goes under center with an Ace or I formation where the RB can actually build some forward upfield momentum to gain a few yards. Mix up the play calling, and mix up the formations. Have some creativity. What we currently display on offense is the most unwatchable boring garbage dumpster fire in American football, and the fact that Shafer stands there and is accepting of this continues to make me think he is in way over his head. Akron is a more riveting watch than SU is at his point. Akron. Yep, I really went there.

I truly want Shafer to succeed because I love his Rah-Rah demeanor, but his staff is pathetic. If this is seriously the best coaches he is capable of assembling then he needs to be removed ASAP. The mediocrity of this program is completely unacceptable given our newfound ACC status. If this team doesn't make huge strides over the course of the season, as well as on the recruiting trail, we could be looking at another half decade of embarrassing SU football.

 

[tipphill]

mcd is not an oc period!!!!

 

[kcsu]

While I am not a consistent contributor, I have been a consistent lurker of the forums for a decade or so. I'll openly come out and admit that I am 24 years old and do not have in-depth knowledge of decades of Syracuse football history like many of you have. That being said, I am a born and raised local, season ticket holder, and son of parents who are both born and raised locals and Syracuse alums. I am a Central New Yorker at heart. Always will be. But that's beside the point...

The point is that regardless of the "success" this program has had post Grob, the current state of the program is absolutely laughable. Love me some Bowl games. Love me some Bowl wins. But the reality is that's a mirage when you seriously evaluate the overall state of the football team. Saint Doug, while a semi-credible coach given his resume (and I am a big Bills fan), utilized mostly Robinson recruits to achieve his success while at SU. Marrone's recruiting was subpar, and the results of his efforts on that front are clearly obvious. Our cupboard is empty, especially on offense. We have a giant RB playing QB, our best WR is a converted QB, enough average RB's to start a small army, zero offensive lineman to write home about besides MAYBE Hickey (completely exposed vs Notre Dame), and I couldn't even name you one of our TE's because they don't exist in a McDonald offense. Which brings me to the biggest issue of all...

We have arguably the worst offensive coordinator in power conference D1 football. Put aside all of the faults we have talent wise. Running 30 screen plays a game is what sinister drunk people do playing Madden video games when they can't figure out how to exit out of the formation. Completely unacceptable play calling at any level of collegiate football. We have one formation. Shotgun. The strength of this team is running the football, and yet McDonald completely negates our ability to establish a true running game by calling the same damn running play every time. IT'S EXTREMELY PREDICTABLE. Hell, maybe just ONCE put TWO RB's in the backfield in the shotgun to keep the defense guessing just a wee little bit. God forbid Hunt goes under center with an Ace or I formation where the RB can actually build some forward upfield momentum to gain a few yards. Mix up the play calling, and mix up the formations. Have some creativity. What we currently display on offense is the most unwatchable boring garbage dumpster fire in American football, and the fact that Shafer stands there and is accepting of this continues to make me think he is in way over his head. Akron is a more riveting watch than SU is at his point. Akron. Yep, I really went there.

I truly want Shafer to succeed because I love his Rah-Rah demeanor, but his staff is pathetic. If this is seriously the best coaches he is capable of assembling then he needs to be removed ASAP. The mediocrity of this program is completely unacceptable given our newfound ACC status. If this team doesn't make huge strides over the course of the season, as well as on the recruiting trail, we could be looking at another half decade of embarrassing SU football.

Very good post. Coaching is our problem way more than a lack of talent

 

[CIL]

While I am not a consistent contributor, I have been a consistent lurker of the forums for a decade or so. I'll openly come out and admit that I am 24 years old and do not have in-depth knowledge of decades of Syracuse football history like many of you have. That being said, I am a born and raised local, season ticket holder, and son of parents who are both born and raised locals and Syracuse alums. I am a Central New Yorker at heart. Always will be. But that's beside the point...

The point is that regardless of the "success" this program has had post Grob, the current state of the program is absolutely laughable. Love me some Bowl games. Love me some Bowl wins. But the reality is that's a mirage when you seriously evaluate the overall state of the football team. Saint Doug, while a semi-credible coach given his resume (and I am a big Bills fan), utilized mostly Robinson recruits to achieve his success while at SU. Marrone's recruiting was subpar, and the results of his efforts on that front are clearly obvious. Our cupboard is empty, especially on offense. We have a giant RB playing QB, our best WR is a converted QB, enough average RB's to start a small army, zero offensive lineman to write home about besides MAYBE Hickey (completely exposed vs Notre Dame), and I couldn't even name you one of our TE's because they don't exist in a McDonald offense. Which brings me to the biggest issue of all...

We have arguably the worst offensive coordinator in power conference D1 football. Put aside all of the faults we have talent wise. Running 30 screen plays a game is what sinister drunk people do playing Madden video games when they can't figure out how to exit out of the formation. Completely unacceptable play calling at any level of collegiate football. We have one formation. Shotgun. The strength of this team is running the football, and yet McDonald completely negates our ability to establish a true running game by calling the same damn running play every time. IT'S EXTREMELY PREDICTABLE. Hell, maybe just ONCE put TWO RB's in the backfield in the shotgun to keep the defense guessing just a wee little bit. God forbid Hunt goes under center with an Ace or I formation where the RB can actually build some forward upfield momentum to gain a few yards. Mix up the play calling, and mix up the formations. Have some creativity. What we currently display on offense is the most unwatchable boring garbage dumpster fire in American football, and the fact that Shafer stands there and is accepting of this continues to make me think he is in way over his head. Akron is a more riveting watch than SU is at his point. Akron. Yep, I really went there.

I truly want Shafer to succeed because I love his Rah-Rah demeanor, but his staff is pathetic. If this is seriously the best coaches he is capable of assembling then he needs to be removed ASAP. The mediocrity of this program is completely unacceptable given our newfound ACC status. If this team doesn't make huge strides over the course of the season, as well as on the recruiting trail, we could be looking at another half decade of embarrassing SU football.

Screens seemed to work well for ND. :noidea:

 

[CIL]

Very good post. Coaching is our problem way more than a lack of talent

Didn't you say the same about Marrone's staff as well? Is that your answer for everything?

 

[KaiserUEO]

You lost me at 24, but I read it anyway.

Entertaining, and not bad analysis.

Post more.

 

[RF2044]

Didn't you say the same about Marrone's staff as well? Is that your answer for everything?

Yes. Across the board coaching incompetence, holding back our more than adequate talent / athleticism to compete at a high level. Largely off-base, IMO.

Your highly insightful thread that you started, with all of the observations / commentary from the NFL front office person, completely debunks a lot of those positions.

 

[TheCusian]

While I am not a consistent contributor, I have been a consistent lurker of the forums for a decade or so. I'll openly come out and admit that I am 24 years old and do not have in-depth knowledge of decades of Syracuse football history like many of you have. That being said, I am a born and raised local, season ticket holder, and son of parents who are both born and raised locals and Syracuse alums. I am a Central New Yorker at heart. Always will be. But that's beside the point... The point is that regardless of the "success" this program has had post Grob, the current state of the program is absolutely laughable. Love me some Bowl games. Love me some Bowl wins. But the reality is that's a mirage when you seriously evaluate the overall state of the football team. Saint Doug, while a semi-credible coach given his resume (and I am a big Bills fan), utilized mostly Robinson recruits to achieve his success while at SU. Marrone's recruiting was subpar, and the results of his efforts on that front are clearly obvious. Our cupboard is empty, especially on offense. We have a giant RB playing QB, our best WR is a converted QB, enough average RB's to start a small army, zero offensive lineman to write home about besides MAYBE Hickey (completely exposed vs Notre Dame), and I couldn't even name you one of our TE's because they don't exist in a McDonald offense. Which brings me to the biggest issue of all... We have arguably the worst offensive coordinator in power conference D1 football. Put aside all of the faults we have talent wise. Running 30 screen plays a game is what sinister drunk people do playing Madden video games when they can't figure out how to exit out of the formation. Completely unacceptable play calling at any level of collegiate football. We have one formation. Shotgun. The strength of this team is running the football, and yet McDonald completely negates our ability to establish a true running game by calling the same damn running play every time. IT'S EXTREMELY PREDICTABLE. Hell, maybe just ONCE put TWO RB's in the backfield in the shotgun to keep the defense guessing just a wee little bit. God forbid Hunt goes under center with an Ace or I formation where the RB can actually build some forward upfield momentum to gain a few yards. Mix up the play calling, and mix up the formations. Have some creativity. What we currently display on offense is the most unwatchable boring garbage dumpster fire in American football, and the fact that Shafer stands there and is accepting of this continues to make me think he is in way over his head. Akron is a more riveting watch than SU is at his point. Akron. Yep, I really went there. I truly want Shafer to succeed because I love his Rah-Rah demeanor, but his staff is pathetic. If this is seriously the best coaches he is capable of assembling then he needs to be removed ASAP. The mediocrity of this program is completely unacceptable given our newfound ACC status. If this team doesn't make huge strides over the course of the season, as well as on the recruiting trail, we could be looking at another half decade of embarrassing SU football.

Thanks for posting - you should more.

As for the content - a bit over the top. They don't run 30 screens a game and last night we saw very few. There is nothing wrong with the running game. Most of CFB runs 90% of their plays from the shotgun. Smaller number of plays are generally good for s fast paced offense.

I'll agree that McDonald has some growing to do. We also need better talent if we are going to really compete with the ND's or FSU of the world.

 

[SmilinBob]

One part that I just don't understand is the hurry up, get set and screw up offense inside the opponents 30. They had ND reeling at times and then did not take advantage with quick get to the line and move your butt football. I found that to be one of the most frustrating things in the game that the team could control. They just took way too long to snap the ball.

 

[Marroniac]

Hunt is NOT a giant RB.

He's a safety.

 

[kcsu]

Didn't you say the same about Marrone's staff as well? Is that your answer for everything?

Yes i did. I thought that Hack was horrible his first few years. Coaching is always going to be the key for SU as we are never going to win the talent war against teams like FSU and Clemson. Never, so the way to try and even the field is through exceptional coaching. The O coaches that we have are average at best. There isnt one coach on that side of the ball with possibly the exception of Lester who has any significant accomplishments. Smith, Adams, Cool kid, these guys have little if any true success at a high level. Adams is beyond me as he has NEVER coached an Oline in his life. So yes i did say that about Dougs staff and im saying it again. I think it is coaching

 

[CIL]

Yes i did. I thought that Hack was horrible his first few years. Coaching is always going to be the key for SU as we are never going to win the talent war against teams like FSU and Clemson. Never, so the way to try and even the field is through exceptional coaching. The O coaches that we have are average at best. There isnt one coach on that side of the ball with possibly the exception of Lester who has any significant accomplishments. Smith, Adams, Cool kid, these guys have little if any true success at a high level. Adams is beyond me as he has NEVER coached an Oline in his life. So yes i did say that about Dougs staff and im saying it again. I think it is coaching

So he went from struggling to not struggling and you stopped posting about it. You going to do the same when McDonald improves? Your posting style tends to be overreactionary after every single loss, to the point where you come across as a petulant child. Knee-jerk reaction much? You supposedly ran a successful business. Were you in the business of firing people or helping them reach their fullest potential?

 

[Flacusian]

Orange Rust Belt, good post and your sentiments are shared by many especially with respect to the predictability of the offensive calls. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If that is by and large true, then the offensive scheme on display yesterday could certainly be characterized as "insane".

Sadly, kids who go out there and bust their butts representing Orange can lose their passion if they feel as though the coaching staff is not providing them with schemes and strategies which allow them to succeed and have a chance to win. Frustrated players make more mistakes, are called for more penalties, and they lose focus on the primary task at hand which is contributing their part towards a winning effort.

The defense played well for the most part and were instrumental in causing multiple turnovers by ND which resulted in precious opportunities which were squandered by the offense with ineffective play calling and execution. That has got to be frustrating for the defensive players who get the ball for the O, only to see a quick 3 and out and then having to hustle back out on the field to try again.

I too was struck by the predictability of the calls on O and the herky-jerky flat footed handoffs out of the shotgun with the defense seemingly only inches away ready to make the tackle on a back with absolutely no inertia coming out of the backfield.

 

[kcsu]

So he went from struggling to not struggling and you stopped posting about it. You going to do the same when McDonald improves? Your posting style tends to be overreactionary after every single loss, to the point where you come across as a petulant child. Knee-jerk reaction much? You supposedly ran a successful business. Were you in the business of firing people or helping them reach their fullest potential?

Reach them reach their potential for sure as many have gone on to run their own business. My point is simple. I dont believe that we have a good O coaching staff. There are way too many things to point out but here are a few. Penalties, regression of players, sub patterns, play calling, chemistry. Watching our O perform is like hearing someone sign out of tune. We are just off and if you cant see that im at a loss. Do you really believe that we have done a good job of coaching? Do you believe that it is all about talent? If so try telling that to the coaching staff at NDSU or how about Villanova. Face it CIL we have an average O coaching staff possibly a very poor one.

 

[Flacusian]

KCSU, I have to agree with you and it's unfortunate that you have to become the target of ad hominem attacks simply because you love the program and are passionate about it. People shouldn't become targets when they critique an aspect of the program that they are at odds with. At the very least, the responsibility of the O coaching staff is to provide your players with a strategy which if carried out effectively will put you in a position to succeed. I think many are frustrated because they don't see that being done.

 

[CIL]

Reach them reach their potential for sure as many have gone on to run their own business. My point is simple. I dont believe that we have a good O coaching staff. There are way too many things to point out but here are a few. Penalties, regression of players, sub patterns, play calling, chemistry. Watching our O perform is like hearing someone sign out of tune. We are just off and if you cant see that im at a loss. Do you really believe that we have done a good job of coaching? Do you believe that it is all about talent? If so try telling that to the coaching staff at NDSU or how about Villanova. Face it CIL we have an average O coaching staff possibly a very poor one.

Can you personally quantify the play calling for me? What specifically do you not like about the play calling? The lack of smash routes against zone coverages? I can see you are at a loss, but then again, when aren't you? Honestly, go back and look at your posting history and I'd say 90% of it is incessant bitching.

Listen, there are things about this O I do not love, trust me. But you do realize that we have exactly one offense that has been better than top half in the last decade. One. You don't think talent has something to do with that?

 

[RF2044]

KCSU, I have to agree with you and it's unfortunate that you have to become the target of ad hominem attacks simply because you love the program and are passionate about it. People shouldn't become targets when they critique an aspect of the program that they are at odds with. At the very least, the responsibility of the O coaching staff is to provide your players with a strategy which if carried out effectively will put you in a position to succeed. I think many are frustrated because they don't see that being done.

Ad hominem "attacks?" Give me a break.

It's one thing to be frustrated, and quite another to post in a consistent sky is falling pattern every time something unfavorable happens.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but I'll repeat something I said in CIL's highly informative other thread: a lot of posters seem to be focusing their frustrations on the wrong things.

 

[alphaorange]

If Hunt hits Estime on the long pass (he was open), that poor play calling gets us over 500 yards against ND, and Hunt throws for over 300. Would you have taken that going in? I would have. We also averaged more yards per rush and would have averaged more per pass if that one pass was completed. It seems the bigger issue was our inability to stop ND...especially on 3rd and long.

 

[dasher]

KCSU, I have to agree with you and it's unfortunate that you have to become the target of ad hominem attacks simply because you love the program and are passionate about it. People shouldn't become targets when they critique an aspect of the program that they are at odds with. At the very least, the responsibility of the O coaching staff is to provide your players with a strategy which if carried out effectively will put you in a position to succeed. I think many are frustrated because they don't see that being done.

It's not an ad hominem attack to challenge someones opinion. The point being made here is that KC, while loving syracuse football, is a one note johnnie. Coaching, coaching, coaching. The fact is that our talent is fine to compete with peer programs but we lack the speed to compete with the top 25 programs. To talk about firing coaches after 16 games is quite frankly silly. Norv turner isn't coming to syracuse to coach the offense.

 

[Millhouse]

Can you personally quantify the play calling for me?

What does that even mean?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I understand the OP's frustration, but some of the post was just not accurate. We did not bubble 30 times. We do run two back sets. Yes, we are almost always shotgun, but that's not uncommon in college football and not really a problem.

We also are getting a lot more big plays both running and passing than we have in. a long time. We seemed to make some good adjustments in the passing game yesterday. We actually put guys in motion.

One thing I'd like us to improve on - Hunt telegraphs stuff sometimes. On one screen he never looked down filed and it was easy to defend because ND could read all the way where the ball was going. The way he took the "QB sneak" snap also allowed ND to cheat with no threat of a handoff. Not having any kind of deception there hurts.

 

[OttoMets]

If Hunt hits Estime on the long pass (he was open), that poor play calling gets us over 500 yards against ND, and Hunt throws for over 300. Would you have taken that going in? I would have. We also averaged more yards per rush and would have averaged more per pass if that one pass was completed. It seems the bigger issue was our inability to stop ND...especially on 3rd and long.

As we saw last week, the goal isn't yards gained. We need sustained drives that lead to points. Too often the playcalling ignores what we've been successful with. Keep in a rhythm; go with what's working.

No doubt we had some defensive third-down difficulties. But 15 points (or 17, with some luck on the PAT and not going for two the next time) isn't beating anyone.

 

[Flacusian]

It's not an ad hominem attack to challenge someones opinion. The point being made here is that KC, while loving syracuse football, is a one note johnnie. Coaching, coaching, coaching. The fact is that our talent is fine to compete with peer programs but we lack the speed to compete with the top 25 programs. To talk about firing coaches after 16 games is quite frankly silly. Norv turner isn't coming to syracuse to coach the offense.

To snarkly say the, "You supposedly ran a successful business" line ... seems mean spirited to me. It's one thing to challenge another viewpoint and another to inject something personal. I may be wrong but that's my opinion.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

What's wrong with players being converted from previous positions? Just because Broyld was a HS QB makes him incapable of being a college WR? Sometimes coaches move players. It happens quite frequently, actually. I also don't think winning bowl games is "laughable". Winning 1-4 games under Gerg was certainly laughable. Hyperbole at its finest. Enjoy watching the Zips.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Yes i did. I thought that Hack was horrible his first few years.

Funny, friends of mine who are Bills fans say that Hackett is the worst OC in the NFL.