How Far We Have Come...

[orange79]

My personal order would be:

McNabb
Graves
McPherson
ED [this is where the argument starts, IMO]
Nassib
Philcox

I don't think there is any way Dungey cracks the top 3. And I LOVE Dungey. Case could certainly be made for Donny Mac over Graves. Similarly, case could be made for Ryan N. over ED, or even Philcox due to length of NFL career. All water cooler talk, and would depend upon subjective opinion. But top 2? I just don't see it, with those two guys ahead of him.

I would flip Donnie and Marvin, but otherwise I'm with you.

 

[elimunelson]

I would flip Donnie and Marvin, but otherwise I'm with you.

hate to be that guy but Kevin Mason in one season was pretty damn good. Maybe it's because he was the guy that was the QB when i showed up on campus but I thought he did the bridge year QB thing better than anyone i can remember. The team sputtered at the end but he filled in admirably. If you put him on one of these 2010 teams, he's the best duel threat qb for sure. His arm was real

 

[Steelerswan]

My personal order would be:

McNabb
Graves
McPherson
ED [this is where the argument starts, IMO]
Nassib
Philcox

I don't think there is any way Dungey cracks the top 3. And I LOVE Dungey. Case could certainly be made for Donny Mac over Graves. Similarly, case could be made for Ryan N. over ED, or even Philcox due to length of NFL career. All water cooler talk, and would depend upon subjective opinion. But top 2? I just don't see it, with those two guys ahead of him.

TY for the insightful response and it's a fun arguement at the end of the day and curing these tough times, glad we are chatting. Like your list and at first glance it's on the $$$. My argument is the relative impact and greatness based on support casts. That's where ED gains stock. Mostly realized last year when the talent pool was exposed after ED , EP, and SI graduated. ED willed a very pedestrian team, MINUS ERV AND ISH to some monumental wins. Great chat and I guess talking and looking for a primary reason for last year and this year this far. If not this argument, it's all on dino, instead of it being a share...

 

[RF2044]

hate to be that guy but Kevin Mason in one season was pretty damn good. Maybe it's because he was the guy that was the QB when i showed up on campus but I thought he did the bridge year QB thing better than anyone i can remember. The team sputtered at the end but he filled in admirably. If you put him on one of these 2010 teams, he's the best duel threat qb for sure. His arm was real

So -- question: didn't Mason make the NFL [Raiders] as an UFA, and stick for one year? I may have that wrong without looking it up.



Edit: Kevin Mason - Wikipedia

Looks like I misremembered -- he signed but was cut on the last day of training camp. Played for several years in the CFL.

 

[orangecuse]

Yeah from what I remember Marrone obviously got fed up with recruiting and couldn't bring in high end talent on the offensive side of the ball, so he left at the perfect time for myself. I do give him credit cause he made us much better on the OL and DL.

Perhaps he was even more "fed up" with the gross lack of financial commitment from his alma mater relative to the football program. He practically begged for an IPF and for all intents and purposes was told 'someday' even though someday was already a day late and a dollar short.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Perhaps he was even more "fed up" with the gross lack of financial commitment from his alma mater relative to the football program. He practically begged for an IPF and for all intents and purposes was told 'someday' even though someday was already a day late and a dollar short.

But the IPF did come, they broke ground 8 months after he left. I don't blame him for being angry, but he knew once SU joined the ACC more money was going to be available for football.

 

[Dinkyspond]

And in fact, I'd contend that the departure of those guys without viable replacements being in the pipeline were one of many factors that went into Marrone's decision to make the jump.

I don't think that was the reason atop the list, but I'm sure it factored into his decision.

He jumped because he was offered an NFL job. He was always rumored to be NFL coaching timber. Marrone knew the limitations at SYR but knew how to work around it. Shafer finished 7-6 the next year and if we had Marrone he might have been good for another win or two. Shafer cratered the program.

 

[JimBoston]

Babers always was a risky hire. He was head coach at Eastern Illinois and Bowling Green for 2 years. At EI, he inherited a Junior Jimmy Garoppolo who is an NFL starting QB. At Bowling Green, he followed Dave Clawson who had BG performing well. Babers really had no experience as a program builder.

Syracuse requires a head coach that is a program builder. I thought Marrone was heading in the right direction and he was reestablishing local recruiting ties which I think is critical to LT success at Syracuse. Recruit the Northeast and bring in kids from FL, GA, and MD/DC/VA.

Maybe Babers will turn into a program builder, but the OL problems this year point to a lack of planning and development. And,I understand the commitment to TD, but it doesn’t seem to be working and a transfer QB is needed for competition for next year.

Still, I think Babers needs 2 more years to show us what he has.

 

[Steelerswan]

Babers always was a risky hire. He was head coach at Eastern Illinois and Bowling Green for 2 years. At EI, he inherited a Junior Jimmy Garoppolo who is an NFL starting QB. At Bowling Green, he followed Dave Clawson who had BG performing well. Babers really had no experience as a program builder.

Syracuse requires a head coach that is a program builder. I thought Marrone was heading in the right direction and he was reestablishing local recruiting ties which I think is critical to LT success at Syracuse. Recruit the Northeast and bring in kids from FL, GA, and MD/DC/VA.

Maybe Babers will turn into a program builder, but the OL problems this year point to a lack of planning and development. And,I understand the commitment to TD, but it doesn’t seem to be working and a transfer QB is needed for competition for next year.

Still, I think Babers needs 2 more years to show us what he has.

Right on, I was all in on dino as a HC. that said, he was adamant and very verbal about his system the first 2 years. Seemed like a system where 3 star talent could prosper and the system would win out. Systems do that where non elite talent can make it work and I still believe it as a properly run system with a capable qb works on speed and execution. The offense is always at an advantage when running combo routes at speed like we did with ED and Erv and ish . Its apparent that qb/we chemistry always wins out and TD hasn't achieved that. OL play aside...its the coaching and the lack of confidence and chemistry at the skills. Ultimately, this is on dino.

 

[orangepassion]

100%, for sustained success, dino has said as much from day 1.

it takes four years for your first class of players to become rs juniors. And your first class is usually hastily thrown together. Were not alabama. This thing is going to take time. We need depth and that takes a lot of time.

i dont want to be the program that cans a guy after five years to start over again especially when dino has shown ability imho.

I totally disagree about the 8-year rebuild. If there's such a thing as an 8-year rebuild, a team that he was able to lead to 10 wins in his 3rd year certainly isn't it. Heck, Dino's offense was unquestionably much better w/ Shafers' guys, so it couldn't have been that bad. I really like Dino personally and I'm not saying we should fire him, but I don't believe he has a lifetime contract if he doesn't perform, either. And I believe Dino would say the same thing. The best thing he's got going in my eyes is the incoming recruiting class and the new DC, but he has to fix the offense/OL and I don't think those guys fix it day 1.

 

[Steelerswan]

I totally disagree about the 8-year rebuild. If there's such a thing as an 8-year rebuild, a team that he was able to lead to 10 wins in his 3rd year certainly isn't it. Heck, Dino's offense was unquestionably much better w/ Shafers' guys, so it couldn't have been that bad. I really like Dino personally and I'm not saying we should fire him, but I don't believe he has a lifetime contract if he doesn't perform, either. And I believe Dino would say the same thing. The best thing he's got going in my eyes is the incoming recruiting class and the new DC, but he has to fix the offense/OL and I don't think those guys fix it day 1.

Spot on, dino and his O was on full display with Shafer's wrs and oline. It's not comfortable, but FACT and dino hasn't developed any wrs or ol in 5 YEARS!!!@ come on. That is the concerning aspect.

 

[RF2044]

He jumped because he was offered an NFL job. He was always rumored to be NFL coaching timber. Marrone knew the limitations at SYR but knew how to work around it. Shafer finished 7-6 the next year and if we had Marrone he might have been good for another win or two. Shafer cratered the program.

Yeah...?

I don't disagree with anything you said.

I still think that the fact that he didn't have a QB recruited to replace Nassib, him knowing that he was losing key offensive players like pugh and lemon all weighed into his evaluative criteria, and made the decision easy.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

Babers always was a risky hire. He was head coach at Eastern Illinois and Bowling Green for 2 years. At EI, he inherited a Junior Jimmy Garoppolo who is an NFL starting QB. At Bowling Green, he followed Dave Clawson who had BG performing well. Babers really had no experience as a program builder.

Syracuse requires a head coach that is a program builder. I thought Marrone was heading in the right direction and he was reestablishing local recruiting ties which I think is critical to LT success at Syracuse. Recruit the Northeast and bring in kids from FL, GA, and MD/DC/VA.

Maybe Babers will turn into a program builder, but the OL problems this year point to a lack of planning and development. And,I understand the commitment to TD, but it doesn’t seem to be working and a transfer QB is needed for competition for next year.

Still, I think Babers needs 2 more years to show us what he has.

I would say that the Marrone hire was even more of a risk. Had not been in college game for several years. No head coaching experience and was calling the offense for New Orleans Saints where it appeared that Sean Payton was Head Coach and maybe true Offensive Coordinator. Marrone did have those binders and a dream! I used to say to my friends that it did not work out for Doug in the NFL he should become an executive placement guy. He obviously knows how to interview. He secured the Jacksonville job after he used an owners death loop hole in his contract to screw the Bills of two years salary. Personally I think Doug knew that Whaley was a trainwreck and the Bills were going nowhere with him picking players and having so much influence. Also, man was it smart to throw in that language with an older owner. Doug Marrone is a master strategist in my mind. I am honored we share the same college alma mater!

Can't imagine the other NFL owners were quick to give him a chance. Yet he ends up with the Jags. Then when it went down Doug was in the right place at the right time was able to be an interim coach and parlay that into a multiyear stint in the NFL. I really would love the chance to sit down with Doug the guy must have the right stuff and is able to sell himself. Sure there is some luck involved. But Doug seems to have a plan. I root for him.

When SU hired Doug Marrone we were coming off a hire of a guy who was twice fired in the NFL as a DC and had never been a head coach. His most recent job was co dc at Texas. He was friends with Pete Carroll so that helped. Man was that a risky hire on paper. That time we got burned big time as we all know. He had never built a program and proved he was not the guy to do it for us. The guy hired a magician to coach the oline. You can't make this stuff up!

It was always my dream that Syracuse would hire a head coach who had been a builder at the FCS level. I am fascinated by the hires of Scott Satterfield at Louisville and Chris Klieman at K State. Those two have had success and built programs in different circumstances. Still haven't been around long enough at the present jobs to say either is the right guy but they seem to be trending in that direction. Maybe our next coin flip can be to something like that if OrangeIsTheNewFast fizzels.

Dino's offense was supposed to thrive in a Dome. It has shown "flashes" and still has the chance to pay off. As we all hope it does! I think Coyle had a plan when he hired Dino and for the first 3 years it seemed like brilliance in the making. As we know we are in a rough spot right now. Dino was fortunate he had that 10-3 as it bought him and extension. Unless the John Lally $$ is going into a buy out I think we are all in on the Babers experience for a few more years.

Sorry for the long post, had a lot on my brain. I love following Syracuse football. We have some amazing coaching stories, player stories (Marcus Sales had digital scales Terrell Hunt remains the only QB I have ever seen get tossed from a game and it feels like things break for us in ways that no other program in America does. It is madness. Enjoy it!!! I sure do. This forum is a great place and I value you all. GO ORANGE!

 

[SU2NASA]

Marvin Graves is the best quarterback in Syracuse history. 3 bowl wins including a Fiesta Bowl, led the team to finishes of #11 and #6 in the nation.

 

[Cuse69]

You guys act like we play in some impossible conference where going 6-6 is so unreasonable, we play in the 4th easiest of the 5 P5 conferences, I assume everyone on here knows this LOL. An 8 year turnaround is insane, if Shafer got every break to go his way in 2015 they probably make a bowl game, like i said 6-6 and a bowl game in this acc is not some impossible feat, 8 years to be contending for ACC titles sure but we should be making bowl games at this point in the Babers era, he's going to get next year no matter what but if thats a normal year (would be pretty nice to think about now) and we don't at the least make a bowl then the seat needs to be hot. The fast offense gimmick has worn out most teams can go fast and it really is not some big deal, babers has a good defense he's the offense guy, this falls on him. I think most of us would take wake forest dave clawson type success, develop players usually make a bowl send a few guys each year to the nfl, no one is asking for a national title but a bowl game and competitive football would be nice.

 

[Maxsumm]

Are you actually serious? A 8-year rebuild?

8 years sounds like ‘ the little engine that could ‘timeline