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Message: [QUOTE="A Clockwork Orange, post: 3016474, member: 16"] For the upstate/downstate discussion. Just because you are FROM downstate does not mean you get to determine where the dividing line is. Culture, social norms, etc... play the major part in the divide. The below map is the definitive dividing line. There are shades of grey on both sides of the divide, but it most definitely essentially runs along the Interstate 88 corridor. Those places to the south typically share similar values to downstate, those north of the line typically displays similar values to upstate. If you chumps would like me to show you the dividing lines of the various sub-regions in upstate NY, I can do that as well. The sub-regions in upstate are almost more important than the upstate/downstate discussion. [ATTACH type="full"]162785[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]