I heard Duke has already offered a scholly | Syracusefan.com

I heard Duke has already offered a scholly

That's awful. I do blame Lebron. And all the other floppers out there. If my kid pulled that crap I'd have him pulled out. It's not basketball.
 
Awful.

I watched a kid who allowed themselves to get run over in a CYO game instead of playing defense get a concussion. It's so stupid.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
That's awful. I do blame Lebron. And all the other floppers out there. If my kid pulled that crap I'd have him pulled out. It's not basketball.
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Yeah, I hate crap like that. A weak argument could be made that the other kid was about to push off (and I hate that too), but the fact that flopping has gotten down to the youth level is horrible.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
That's awful. I do blame Lebron. And all the other floppers out there. If my kid pulled that crap I'd have him pulled out. It's not basketball.
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Agreed.
 
That's poor reffing. Ref should have scanned the court before handing the ball off, seen the two leaning into each other before the throw-in and separated them. There is no need for them to be leaning into each other in that part of the court in open space prior to the throw-in. If they do it again on the restart - double foul.
 
I might be the only one, but I don't have a huge problem with it. This flop might be a bit too far, but the kid has some savvy. That play could be the difference between winning and losing. How many times does a guy clearly knock a ball out of bounds and then points towards his basket trying to get the ref to make the call in their favor. Sometimes you have to take advantage of the human nature of refs. Whatever it takes to help your team win.

People may get on Aaron Craft, but that kid was a gamer. He hustled to every loose ball and had a nose for the ball. He played tight defense, and if the refs aren't calling a foul, then why stop?

I don't necessarily agree with flopping, but I won't get mad at a kid for doing it once in a while. If it works, then why not?
 
dollarbill44 said:
That's poor reffing. Ref should have scanned the court before handing the ball off, seen the two leaning into each other before the throw-in and separated them. There is no need for them to be leaning into each other in that part of the court in open space prior to the throw-in. If they do it again on the restart - double foul.
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I think this is the best response in this thread. Cowtown , I'd love to hear you on this one my friend. I wonder if control of the game had gotten away from the refs. Looked like the call came from behind and they never show that ref...
 
I don't know, where in the rule book says that it's OK for one player to lean into and put his hands on (especially during a dead ball) another player?

I'm all for cleaning up the game and that means eliminating unnecessary contact as well as flopping.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
I think this is the best response in this thread. Cowtown , I'd love to hear you on this one my friend. I wonder if control of the game had gotten away from the refs. Looked like the call came from behind and they never show that ref...
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Aw geez, I'm watching the Masters already ... I'll get you for this, dawg ... ;)

I watched the clip several times and also read the responses here in this thread. There are a few things to consider.

First a little story. When you begin reffing, you ref the rules you know, because that's what you know. Then after your rules knowledge improves and you're better prepared that way, you ref the players because that's what you see: players. And after a few years of that, you begin reffing the game. Or you should anyway, and it's a major step up. So, in no particular order, here's my take.

So, it's important to know what kind of game it had been up to that point. Things that happened previously, calls you made, calls you didn't, would bear on how you handle that situation. You can't look at a call like that in isolation and know how to handle it. There may have been some bad blood from a previous incident, or perhaps 3 had flopped on someone else earlier in the game? It all has some bearing.

While I generally agree with the sentiment in the article accompanying the vid clip, I'm not so sure that it shows what the writer is advocating. To begin with, the quality of the video is not good, it has a different angle from what the ref saw, and it doesn't show everything. The kid in the dark jersey (3) does in fact extend his left arm in the direction the kid in the white jersey (21) fell (the right extends as he's falling so there's nothing there). It's also quite possible 3 did push 21 to some extent, contributing to his "fall." Notice he did take a few steps toward 21 prior to the actual "shove/flop." It's also possible (I can't see, though) that 21 grabbed his wrist and pulled 3 toward him. Like I said the video quality isn't good.

About the ref, and observations made regarding her. Refs in those games (looks like a grade 7 level or so) usually aren't terribly experienced. Often they're volunteers or a first year type. It's actually harder to ref that level because you never know what players will do, and believe me they'll do some weird . :) So let's not be too hard on them for that. Also, if you watch the action you'll see by the time she gives the ball to the inbounds passer, the two kids have moved away such that she's effectively straight-lined (and yes, maybe her partner was also) and can't see who caused what. And we all get caught like that once in a while.

Another comment was made alluding to what's called preventative officiating, ie using your voice, and it's a great game skill. Blow your whistle, walk over to the kids and say something like, "If you two want to play the rest of the game, knock it off." Show 'em your war face, LOL! :mad: Also tell the defender he has to give the guy without the ball a step, to try to create some separation. And if they persist, the double foul is probably the right way to go. And if they get stupid again, ask the coaches to take them out for a spell. If the coach protests, I'd say "Work with me coach, I can make sure he sits for a long time, if you know what I mean ..."

And as usual, this is just IMHO, and I'm not always right.
 
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Dave85 said:
The player who was called for the foul should not have been pushing on the flopper. The kid knocked the other kid over. The ref called a foul. Good job by the actor. You know how I know it was a foul. The referee called it. I tell my kids all the time: Next play, just play, shut up.
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I agree the kid shouldn't have had his hands on him, as I said in another post. I don't agree that just because a ref makes the call, it's always the right one (we only need to look at the CJ charge at Duke). In this case it probably was, but the other kid shouldn't have flopped like that. If you fall over because of contact, so be it, but don't throw yourself into the floor looking for a call. I hate when players "act" in sports. Rules exist for the game to be played fairly. Refs exist to call the rules the same both ways. Acting in an attempt to manipulate the refs isn't sporting.
 
I looks like the kid in the dark had a handful of the other kids jersey. So when the other kid flopped his hands went with the flopper, giving the appearance of a push. If so, it seems the flopper intentionally did this because the kid was grabbing his jersey to prevent him from making a quick move. Not sure I have a problem with the flop if that was the case.
 
I remember a time when you actually had to take a significant amount of contact in order to draw a charge, with the risk of having your head slam off the court or a knee/elbow to some body part. If you were successful, you got a lot of praise from your team, coach, fans, and even the other team at times because it was a good, tough basketball play.

I miss that.
 
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