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Message: [QUOTE="Chip, post: 1155612, member: 19"] RF, you know that program was much more buried than us. It's what we've spent countless hours on this board confirming. They had no history, no brand, no one from that state even considered that a school to attend. In ALL those years of its history, it went to exactly one bowl, and that was a short term bowl that was created in its own state. It was about as dead as Kansas State, but Bill Snyder took them to better places than Schiano achieved. I think it's obvious that Marrone had some defensive talent to work with. And as bad as we were in 2008, we were still able to beat Louisville and ND, we were beating Pitt & WVU in the 4th quarter. Which to me says there were a few guys who could actually play football, their leadership just got in the way most of the time, especially prepping them to start the year. When people think of 2008, they think of Akron, and that's about it. [/QUOTE]