If you had to make a change to start James over Fair, or Cooney over Triche what would you choose???

[orangefan13]

With both Coleman and Xmas starting over Baye, Cooney and Southerlands roles have become more important. The 09-10 and last 11-12 teams thrived with 2 offensive sparks off the bench.

Oddly enough with my thinking I might go with Cooney though. I think we are going to pound the ball inside alot early on putting less stress on Cooney needing to hit outside buckets to start the game. I feel Triche coming in and moving without the ball could annoy defenses the minute he gets in the game. He is the kind of guy who can come in and hit 2 quick layups and a nice dish in the lane moving without the ball.

I also feel Fair could work will off the bench. James can put a ton of shots up in no time even starting. Fair he needs to get his spots and as a PF he is going to get them better. James is showing more and more that he is ready for 30 minutes at SF while many thought that would be Fairs job.

Thing is JB will never start cooney over senior Triche. Fair has a extra year reguardless. JB will do every thing he can to help Triches status, but in my opinion it would be the better option.
I can't imagine DC2 and Xmas not starting on build and athleticism alone. As good as Keita is.

If we don't make a change then Cooney will need to step up and be a offensive difference maker. I think by masking him as the third guard (similar to Triches freshmen season) alot less emphasis would be put on his jumper at the beginning of both halfs. Its still early though,it makes sense to have Cooney shoot alot in game to BE play starts.

Stealing a line from someone else

, discuss.

 

[jekelish]

 

[orangefan13]

Even the staff probably brainstorms a second scoring threat off the bench. But, I always enjoy good dose of rude arrogance in the middle of a debate. You won the award yet again.

 

[jekelish]

My point is that it's just plain stupid to even be discussing this. We are unbeaten and ranked 6th in the country, and look like one of the best teams in the nation. I can see talking about Dirty as a starter, but why on earth would we even think about subbing in Cooney for Triche?

It's jaw droppingly dumb to even entertain the notion.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I would certainly chose the James over CJ option. I thought before the season started that lineup made the most sense theoritically. That with Rak and DC2 starting you would want the better outside shooter to stretch the D. Having JS bring out the opponents forward seemed liked it would help spacing. It might also help BT crash the boards. BT is a better rebounder than most guards and it seemed like this advantage could be used more when the other teams forward is pulled away from the basket.

The idea of Cooney starting over BT is so far fetched it is hard for me to consider.

 

[Bornorange]

Dion was not the best 2 guard last year and Cooney is not Dion.
Everybody is playing well and James can play any position and gets his minutes.

 

[orangefan13]

My point is that it's just plain stupid to even be discussing this. We are unbeaten and ranked 6th in the country, and look like one of the best teams in the nation.

Are you serious??? We have one solid scorer right now. ONE, Dirty. Outside of that we are athletic but not very sound offensively at all. We have MCW as a really solid floor general and passer. Outside of dirty and MCW we have no solid offensive leaders right now, although I feel Rak is starting to blossom.

I can see talking about Dirty as a starter, but why on earth would we even think about subbing in Cooney for Triche?
It's jaw droppingly dumb to even entertain the notion.

I agree it would be a very rare move for JB to make. JB will give starters more minutes so A) they have a shot at the NBA, B) because they have experience for more minutes and C) as a thank you and respectfull action, but thats really not the point of Cooney starting.

The point is, it would be like throwing Triche off the bench as a freshmen in 09-10 instead of Scoop. The difference in offense was light and day between the two, it would have cost us another 3-4 games maybe. JB masked Triches lack of offense in 09-10 in the starting lineup well by starting him. If Cooneys shot falls I could see a Rautins like sophmore year for him, but it has to start falling first. People are saying cooneys shot is going to fall, but nobody really knows that. Its almost guarenteed someone will say that as a response to this post with blind faith wishfull thinking. People felt the same about James sophmore year.

On top of that Putting Cooney and James off the bench together you are putting in two guys who shoot threes. Two guys who with Baye and Keita are our 6-9th isolation scorers right now(until cooneys shot falls and James learns to shoot over defenders or off a bounce or two). We start our 5 proven isolation scorers and bring our 4 non isolation scorers off the bench.

Say we are already down and we need 6th man power so they come off the bench. Then they throw up 4 threes apeice going 1-8 collectively. Already down that is a BIG recipe for dissaster.

I think Starting Cooney would be better then Starting Fair. Actually I would start James, and bring Triche and Fair both off the bench, running JB's motion sets that he can't run as well with Rak or DC2 at the four, and help mask Southerland being not quite the rebounder Fair is.

So to reiterate the point of the post isn't what is going to happen its what you think would be best.
If you had to make a change(like the title says) is asking you to think for yourself without saying the coaches know best and arent' going to change anything.

 

[jekelish]

I am thinking for myself. And I think this is a pretty idiotic discussion.

 

[Garbs]

I have no words

 

[br801]

I agree it would be a very rare move for JB to make. JB will give starters more minutes so A) they have a shot at the NBA, B) because they have experience for more minutes and C) as a thank you and respectfull action, but thats really not the point of Cooney starting.

The point is, it would be like throwing Triche off the bench as a freshmen in 09-10 instead of Scoop. The difference in offense was light and day between the two, it would have cost us another 3-4 games maybe. JB masked Triches lack of offense in 09-10 in the starting lineup well by starting him. If Cooneys shot falls I could see a Rautins like sophmore year for him, but it has to start falling first. People are saying cooneys shot is going to fall, but nobody really knows that. Its almost guarenteed someone will say that as a response to this post with blind faith wishfull thinking. People felt the same about James sophmore year.

On top of that Putting Cooney and James off the bench together you are putting in two guys who shoot threes. Two guys who with Baye and Keita are our 6-9th isolation scorers right now(until cooneys shot falls and James learns to shoot over defenders or off a bounce or two). We start our 5 proven isolation scorers and bring our 4 non isolation scorers off the bench.

Say we are already down and we need 6th man power so they come off the bench. Then they throw up 4 threes apeice going 1-8 collectively. Already down that is a BIG recipe for dissaster.

I think Starting Cooney would be better then Starting Fair. Actually I would start James, and bring Triche and Fair both off the bench, running JB's motion sets that he can't run as well with Rak or DC2 at the four, and help mask Southerland being not quite the rebounder Fair is.

So to reiterate the point of the post isn't what is going to happen its what you think would be best.
If you had to make a change(like the title says) is asking you to think for yourself without saying the coaches know best and arent' going to change anything.

Seriously, man, you're overthinking this stuff.

 

[Flacusian]

Cooney starting in over Triche:

 

[senorpalmer]

File the original post under "something you'll never hear suggested by anyone else ever". But as long as we're talking JS/Fair at the same time, the best lineup this team can put on the floor, at least so far, is one that includes both of them. But no need to fix what ain't broke, if Southerland can keep this up he should be one of the top MPG guys on the team, doesn't matter much if he does it as the 6th man.

 

[jordoo]

Cooney will likely not start next season over Ennis and MikeG.

 

[cuserulesall]

I am thinking for myself. And I think this is a pretty idiotic discussion.

It sure would be pure horror for are opponents .What a shell shock to the other team . They wouldn't know what hit them , with a bench like that . Maybe a national championship . Last year when Dion came out , all you know what broke loose .

 

[orangefan13]

Seriously, man, you're overthinking this stuff.

Alot of times I would agree because the cons help balence the pros. But this time they don't as much. Its like picking a car, you don't buy the first one you see because its not broke. You brainstorm for long periods of time and visit the pros and cons.

Of course its really early right now. Cooney, Dajuan, Rak, and James(with defenders tight on him) need to get all the shots they can while Fair continues to learn a SF role from the perimeter.
MCW's role is going to change with Dajuan and Rak out there vs Triche and Fair attacking the paint.

 

[bozophobe]

The common expectation that Cooney's shots will start to drop isn't delusional wishful thinking, but rather a probable occurrence based on history.

Not saying he's automatically going to be a top marksman. At best, his % will top out in the forties somewhere. But the good news toward the end of the last game was his ability and willingness to drive to the basket. The look on his face while doing that seemed labored, but he got the job done. Dion he isn't, but imagine if Rautins had developed a driving handle and move. The guy is strong, and a great free throw shooter, so if JS draws a couple of guys, I say let him find the gap and go for it. TC's offensive game has never been a one trick pony, anyway. And the coaches aren't grooming him to be, right?

I just hope too many fans don't play one teammate against another just because we're still not used to the luxury of depth. Until about a year or 2 ago, I sure was still paranoid about a bench warmer transferring away (like what happened for about 15 years in a row), but that doesn't seem to happen as much anymore, for some reason.

 

[bnoro]

What kind of comments do people expect from a guy whose signature pic is Jesus walking across water with poorly photoshopped (maybe done in paint) images of Syracuse basketball players?

 

[SBU72]

I am thinking for myself. And I think this is a pretty idiotic discussion.

I've read the whole thread and it makes no sense at all.

 

[orangefan13]

What kind of comments do people expect from a guy whose signature pic is Jesus walking across water with poorly photoshopped (maybe done in paint) images of Syracuse basketball players?

It was done in paint I am not a art or computer major. Oh and for the record I spent about 6 hours on it. Wheres your 6 hour poster?

Sorry I didn't realize my signature means I can't post about basketball.

 

[orangefan13]

I've read the whole thread and it makes no sense at all.

The typical it makes no sense response without giving reasons why.
I explain it in a graph below.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Has anyone else thought about swapping in Keita for MCW when he needs a breather? We should discuss this...

 

[bnoro]

It was done in paint I am not a art or computer major. Oh and for the record I spent about 6 hours on it. Wheres your 6 hour poster?

Sorry I didn't realize my signature means I can't post about basketball.

I can put together something like that in a half hour and make it look good. It's called photoshop. Can't believe you wasted 6 hours on that "masterpiece".

Also lighten up, francis, it was a joke.

 

[SBU72]

The typical it makes no sense response without giving reasons why.
I explain it in a graph below.

How can you make a sensible response to something that makes no sense? Where do you begin? Replace 2 starters who need no replacing? One who is a 3 year starter with a freshman who hasn't yet hit the side of a barn? The other starter who has been one of the most consitent forwards for the past 2 years?

 

[orangefan13]

I wouldn't rewrite this list if people didn't automatically dismiss my thought saying its pointless.
Theres enough of those in the thread already and it just started.

Triche and Fair coming off the bench vs James and Cooney.
(These are entirely based on the last 4 games.)

Pro- James rebounding woes will be masked better for 8 minutes at the beginning of both halfs with 2 bigs in the game.
Con to balence- Fair is a strong rebounder. Fair and 2 of our bigs is our best rebounding lineup. Still the pro probably slightly outweighs the con in my opinion.

Pro- We have our best scorer out there(James) to start the game and at the first timeout.
Con- There really isn't one to balence.

Pro- The time when teams are least likely to press is to start halfs. Cooney and Southerland can be masked at those points. And if they do press early we go to Fair and Triche to get back into the game, while at the same time destroying the confidence of their press.
Con to balence - there isn't one I would still rather have ball handlers against late presses then early ones.

Pro- Bringing Fair off the bench gives him 4-5 extra mpg at the beginning of both halfs without the bigs in the lineup. That lets him play PF and run the motion and high post sets the meat of his game.
Con to balence- there isn't one. He will still get to just minus 8-10 minutes at the beginning of both halfs.

Pro- Bringing Triche off the bench lets him move and slash to the high midpost more without two bigs on the floor. Bringing Cooney in when we sub to a smaller lineup takes Triche out of his bread and butter for the first 8 minutes. MCW can find Triche who can in return find Fair. imo Triche and Fair will also be our best secondary swing passers this year.
Con- Outside of having a better scorer out there to start there isn't one. It will be slightly harder for him to score and set up plays with two bigs in the game though. Our bigs would have to focus on movement in the post and more screen plays for Triche. imo Pro outweighs Con.

Pro- MCW's having two high post scorers. MCW's could go from two bigs in the post to Triche and Fair slashing and moving around the high post at the first timeout. Having two high post scorers in the post to dish to is best for MCW. And Triche and Fair will also be this teams best secondary quick passers.
There is little reason for MCW to only have one high post scorer on the floor at any time. He has guys like Triche, Fair, Xmas, and Dajuan. I think having Keita and Southerland on the floor together isn't as good unless Triche and one of Fair/Dajuan/Xmas is in.
Con to balence- There isn't one. MCW is a heck of a talent give him two post scorers when you can.

Pro- We are going to pound the ball inside alot early, especially if we add James on the floor. We don't need Cooney to shoot alot this year. His defense, hustle and passing brings good enough energy to start. Having two scorers off the bench is more important then having 5 starting scorers instead of 4. You aren't going to go to all 5 scorers for 3 shots apiece in 4 minutes anyway. But bringing a duo of scoring energy off the bench creates problems.
Con to balence- Starting Cooney means more minutes for Cooney if Triche or MCW get into foul trouble, and Cooney can be masked in the second lineup as well. Still, Cooney is good for 5-8 game breakouts as of right now instead of the 12-14 which you want from 2 guys off the bench.

Pro- Say we are down 10-4 to start the game, and we bring both Cooney and Southerland off the bench and they go a collective 0-5 from three in the next 5 shots extending the lead to 20-4. You shot yourself more out of a game instead of getting easy buckets to get back into it.
Con- There isn't one to balence. When you are down you want easy buckets and to get to the line. Its like being up 12 at the 8 minute mark you don't go for three after three rolling the dice when you can get high percentage shots and put more pressure on opponents. Thats part of what makes our zone so special forcing them to threes when they are down .

Pro- With the 10-4 scenerio above. You also like to get to the line when you are down 10-4 early on. Cooney and James are the most unlikely canidates on the team to do so.
Con to balence- They may be good free throw shooters if they get to the line.

Pro- Triche and Fair invite physical offense off the bench. Cooney, Southerland, Keita and Grant not so much.
Con to balence- there isn't one.

Pro- 09-10 and 11-12 we brought our best scoring SG off the bench. Right now Triche is a better scorer then Cooney.
Con- Cooney could become the better scorer by the end of the year. I don't think it will happen, but it wouldn't suprise me.


Thats about 9 points where the pros outweight the cons. 3-4 of them slightly the other 5-6 by alot.
Its a list based on only the last 3-4 games though where Fair isn't playing well from the perimeter and Cooney is missing alot of shots and Triche still isn't breaking down his man in isolation while James is scorching the nets.

Once again, I rewrote this long list because there is so many people on this board that automatically dismiss thoughts with the typical "oh, it makes no sense response".

 

[bnoro]

It's not like these guys aren't playing. James is getting starters minutes and coming off the bench at the under 16 timeout. Cooney's getting run but he hasn't shown he really deserves it yet. You're shaking things up just to do it which 95% of the time is really stupid to do when you're undefeated.