In JB We Trust!!

[GFTakedown]

Since JB took over SU in the 76-77 year, other "top" programs have seen numerous coaching changes!

Arizona: Snowden, Lindsey, Olson, Pennell, Miller
Conn: Rowe, Perno, Calhoun, Ollie
Duke: Foster, Krzyzewski
Florida: Lotz, Sloan, Kruger, Donovan
Indiana: Knight, Davis, Sampson, Crean
Kansas: Owens, Brown, Williams, Self
Kentucky: Hall, Sutton, Pitino, Smith, Gillispie, Calipari
Louisville: Crum, Pitino
Michigan: Orr, Frieder, Fisher, Ellerbe, Amaker, Beilein
Michigan State: Heathcote, Izzo
UCLA: Bartow, Cunningham, Brown, Farmer, Hazard, Harrick, Lavin, Howland, Alford
UNC: Smith, Guthridge, Doherty, Williams

others
tOSU: Taylor, Miller, Williams, Ayers, O'Brien, Matta
BC: Zuffelato, Davis, Williams, O'Brien, Skinner, Donahue
Pitt: Grgurich, Chipman, Evans, Willard, Howland, Dixon
Villanova: Massamino, Lappas, Wright
Memphis: Yates, Kirk, Finch, Price, Jones, Calipari, Pastner

The game has not passed him and he knows how to coach. We might not agree with what he does all the time but there are reasons that we, as fans, will never know!! Honestly I don't want to know. Not my job to coach but just watch and enjoy.

Can't wait to see how the team improves over the summer. It is always exciting to see how much players improve each year.

 

[AustinCuse]

Add Tom Crean to Indiana

 

[newmexicuse]

Yes, Jimmy is the face of the program. Nobody has ever or will ever do more for SU basketball. His loyalty to the Cuse is unsurpassed. These things are beyond any doubt whatsoever.

His consistency of putting out teams that win 20+ every year is beyond incredible; however, none of the above should mean that he is beyond criticism.

I agree that the game has not passed him by, but Jimmy's biggest problem IMHO, is that he does what he knows works well and that he never seems to strive to improve upon himself to try and make changes that will work even better. That is why our program is the hallmark of consistency, yet we never quite seems to reach the peaks that other top programs have attained even if those programs experience more bumps in the road.

 

[TheCusian]

Yes, Jimmy is the face of the program. Nobody has ever or will ever do more for SU basketball. His loyalty to the Cuse is unsurpassed. These things are beyond any doubt whatsoever. His consistency of putting out teams that win 20+ every year is beyond incredible; however, none of the above should mean that he is beyond criticism. I agree that the game has not passed him by, but Jimmy's biggest problem IMHO, is that he does what he knows works well and that he never seems to strive to improve upon himself to try and make changes that will work even better. That is why our program is the hallmark of consistency, yet we never quite seems to reach the peaks that other top programs have attained even if those programs experience more bumps in the road.

You don't win the amount of games he has without growing as a coach, tweaking your philosophy as you go.

We used to play man and zone... Saw that it worked better to perfect the zone, changed.

 

[newmexicuse]

You don't win the amount of games he has without growing as a coach, tweaking your philosophy as you go.

We used to play man and zone... Saw that it worked better to perfect the zone, changed.

Yes, that was a change that just locked himself into making fewer changes (nice irony).

Playing some man is kinda like playing your bench, you take a step backwards at times to be able to take two steps forward later on by having more tools at your disposal. Jimmy gave up on playing man after a couple of really bad efforts, but if there is no practice or emphasis on learning man then it will not be improved upon. Just like to develop a bench you gotta run the 8 thru 10 guys out there & let them play thru some mistakes, same with learning man. Do you not think that some man to change the tempo wouldn't have helped us immeasurably in some of those slow down losses against teams with inferior athletes such as BC and Dayton (when it really meant something) ?????

 

[Millhouse]

Since JB took over SU in the 76-77 year, other "top" programs have seen numerous coaching changes!

Arizona: Snowden, Lindsey, Olson, Pennell, Miller
Conn: Rowe, Perno, Calhoun, Ollie
Duke: Foster, Krzyzewski
Florida: Lotz, Sloan, Kruger, Donovan
Indiana: Knight, Davis, Sampson
Kansas: Owens, Brown, Williams, Self
Kentucky: Hall, Sutton, Pitino, Smith, Gillispie, Calipari
Louisville: Crum, Pitino
Michigan: Orr, Frieder, Fisher, Ellerbe, Amaker, Beilein
Michigan State: Heathcote, Izzo
UCLA: Bartow, Cunningham, Brown, Farmer, Hazard, Harrick, Lavin, Howland, Alford
UNC: Smith, Guthridge, Doherty, Williams

others
tOSU: Taylor, Miller, Williams, Ayers, O'Brien, Matta
BC: Zuffelato, Davis, Williams, O'Brien, Skinner, Donahue
Pitt: Grgurich, Chipman, Evans, Willard, Howland, Dixon
Villanova: Massamino, Lappas, Wright
Memphis: Yates, Kirk, Finch, Price, Jones, Calipari, Pastner

The game has not passed him and he knows how to coach. We might not agree with what he does all the time but there are reasons that we, as fans, will never know!! Honestly I don't want to know. Not my job to coach but just watch and enjoy.

Can't wait to see how the team improves over the summer. It is always exciting to see how much players improve each year.

why do you put top in quotes?

if you pick the year before boeheim started, OMG we have as much turnover as Louisville

a lot of those programs look like they did just fine. If only MSU still had Heathcote, they'd be good

 

[RF2044]

I agree that the game has not passed him by, but Jimmy's biggest problem IMHO, is that he does what he knows works well and that he never seems to strive to improve upon himself to try and make changes that will work even better. That is why our program is the hallmark of consistency, yet we never quite seems to reach the peaks that other top programs have attained even if those programs experience more bumps in the road.

Just out of curiosity, what are you basing that upon?

I don't have a problem with your last sentence--valid criticism--but the preceding sentence appears to be baseless, subjective attribution on your part.

 

[newmexicuse]

Just out of curiosity, what are you basing that upon?

I don't have a problem with your last sentence--valid criticism--but the preceding sentence appears to be baseless, subjective attribution on your part.

Well, we can just look at the last few years when the losses of AO and Melo hurt us so badly. Jimmy might have learned that bench development is important. Last year, Grant was rotting away on the pine until Southerland had his issues then he got a chance, and voila, a kid that was simply given an opportunity played well. Jimmy might have learned from that the players can grow into roles if given opportunity. Maybe the same thing might have happened this season if the Sons were given opportunity instead of waiting until it was too late. Same with the M v Z thing and allowing athletically inferior teams such as Dayton to dictate tempo and defeat us.

IMHO, Jimmy does what is best at that moment, and he doesn't sacrifice a little bit of the present to prepare for being better in the future. And eventually the future becomes the present and sometimes we are not ready.

If what I say is not accurate, then please explain why so many of our teams fail to be improving when March comes around ?? Really in the last ten years, off the top, I would say only last year & the 2003 teams were improving when March arrived. Others just either met or in too many cases failed to meet expectations.

 

[joct]

It is amazing to think of the changes he's seen during that time, and won through all of them. Small arena/largest arena; regional power with limited budget; independent/ECAC/the Big East/Big East expansion/ACC; 2-3 games on tv/ being the main conference on tv/everyone is on tv; ncaa tournament goes from 32 to 68 teams; shot clock; 3 point line; early entries to NBA increasing/ straight out of HS trend / one-and-done era.

 

[RF2044]

Well, we can just look at the last few years when the losses of AO and Melo hurt us so badly. Jimmy might have learned that bench development is important. Last year, Grant was rotting away on the pine until Southerland had his issues then he got a chance, and voila, a kid that was simply given an opportunity played well. Jimmy might have learned from that the players can grow into roles if given opportunity. Maybe the same thing might have happened this season if the Sons were given opportunity instead of waiting until it was too late. Same with the M v Z thing and allowing athletically inferior teams such as Dayton to dictate tempo and defeat us.

IMHO, Jimmy does what is best at that moment, and he doesn't sacrifice a little bit of the present to prepare for being better in the future. And eventually the future becomes the present and sometimes we are not ready.

If what I say is not accurate, then please explain why so many of our teams fail to be improving when March comes around ?? Really in the last ten years, off the top, I would say only last year & the 2003 teams were improving when March arrived. Others just either met or in too many cases failed to meet expectations.

I think that utilizing the bench might not be the best argument. It can certainly be argued that in recent years [post his Olympic experience], that JB has expanded his utilization of the bench and employed an expanded rotation, when warranted by the personnel.

But let's just take that one argument at face value: I think you're taking one point and extrapolating it to reach a conclusion that isn't necessarily true about JB--certainly not one that is supportable.

Just my two cents.

PS--I don't think you can get blood from a stone. There was no level of PT that was going to make Dash Riley an adequate replacement for Arinze after the latter got injured in 2010, no matter how much people might wish for that to be the case. Might he have been a little more prepared? Perhaps. But a little more PT wasn't going to magically transform Riley into a starting caliber center capable of producing even a fraction of what AO provided. Same thing with Rak in 2012. Neither player was ready. No matter how many minutes they were forcefed, there was an upper limit to their capabilities at that point. Rak had a great game against Kansas State in the round of 32, playing major minutes, but was practically invisible against Wisconsin and totally overmatched against Ohio State / Sullinger. It doesn't matter how many extra minutes he'd played throughout the course of the year, Rak wasn't going to be able to go toe-to-toe with Sullinger that game as a raw frosh. This year, I would have preferred for the Sons to get some run. I think that all three actually WILL be part of the regular rotation next year as sophomores. But while we needed depth, it doesn't mean that the frosh were ready to play this year. Sometimes, you can't get blood from a stone.

 

[TODDNTEXAS]

Yes, Jimmy is the face of the program. Nobody has ever or will ever do more for SU basketball. His loyalty to the Cuse is unsurpassed. These things are beyond any doubt whatsoever.

His consistency of putting out teams that win 20+ every year is beyond incredible; however, none of the above should mean that he is beyond criticism.

I agree that the game has not passed him by, but Jimmy's biggest problem IMHO, is that he does what he knows works well and that he never seems to strive to improve upon himself to try and make changes that will work even better. That is why our program is the hallmark of consistency, yet we never quite seems to reach the peaks that other top programs have attained even if those programs experience more bumps in the road.

You may not recall but JB has stated in the past that he took away several things from each of the coaches he interacted with during the Olympics. The core of what he does will not change but you can see other principles being incorporated. Some things are fundamental to who he is as a coach and that I doubt will ever change.

 

[newmexicuse]

I think that utilizing the bench might not be the best argument. It can certainly be argued that in recent years [post his Olympic experience], that JB has expanded his utilization of the bench and employed an expanded rotation, when warranted by the personnel.

But let's just take that one argument at face value: I think you're taking one point and extrapolating it to reach a conclusion that isn't necessarily true about JB--certainly not one that is supportable.

Just my two cents.

PS--I don't think you can get blood from a stone. There was no level of PT that was going to make Dash Riley an adequate replacement for Arinze after the latter got injured in 2010, no matter how much people might wish for that to be the case. Might he have been a little more prepared? Perhaps. But a little more PT wasn't going to magically transform Riley into a starting caliber center capable of producing even a fraction of what AO provided. Same thing with Rak in 2012. Neither player was ready. No matter how many minutes they were forcefed, there was an upper limit to their capabilities at that point. Rak had a great game against Kansas State in the round of 32, playing major minutes, but was practically invisible against Wisconsin and totally overmatched against Ohio State / Sullinger. It doesn't matter how many extra minutes he'd played throughout the course of the year, Rak wasn't going to be able to go toe-to-toe with Sullinger that game as a raw frosh. This year, I would have preferred for the Sons to get some run. I think that all three actually WILL be part of the regular rotation next year as sophomores. But while we needed depth, it doesn't mean that the frosh were ready to play this year. Sometimes, you can't get blood from a stone.

Yes, you can't get blood from a stone, but a couple of thoughts.

1. I think that AO team was so good and playing so well that even a slightly better prepared Riley maybe gets us past Butler & into a FF, though I could not see a title wo AO.

2. I agree about Rak, but still you never know for sure.

3. This year as you say, I think the Sons might have been a big difference if they had gotten some run. Even if they don't directly contribute much, maybe our core seven simply stays fresher & doesn't run out of steam. In the Dayton game, I do not believe Jerami was near 100%. He should not have played 32 minutes against WMU.

4. Lastly - the big wildcard - maybe with fewer minutes guys don't get hurt in the first place.

 

[RF2044]

Yes, you can't get blood from a stone, but a couple of thoughts.

1. I think that AO team was so good and playing so well that even a slightly better prepared Riley maybe gets us past Butler & into a FF, though I could not see a title wo AO.

2. I agree about Rak, but still you never know for sure.

3. This year as you say, I think the Sons might have been a big difference if they had gotten some run. Even if they don't directly contribute much, maybe our core seven simply stays fresher & doesn't run out of steam. In the Dayton game, I do not believe Jerami was near 100%. He should not have played 32 minutes against WMU.

4. Lastly - the big wildcard - maybe with fewer minutes guys don't get hurt in the first place.

Good post--not worth arguing about regardless.

LGO!