In the off chance that someone in the SUAD reads this forum...

[nzm136]

I realize that there are all kinds of revenue recognition issues/discrepancies with DoE "Equity in Athletics" numbers, but I feel like they're ballpark accurate. With that in mind, look at Baylor. They reported something liek $120 million last year (or thereabouts - I can't remember the exact number). That's frigging Baylor, not FSU, PSU, OSU, or any other "SU." It's BAYLOR. They have next to no history and they don't have an especially large fan base. But, they do have a good coach and a good coaching staff, and they have been winning. That's how much winning matters. It's literally worth tens of MILLIONS of dollars in revenue PLUS who know how much exposure for the school. If you're willing to buy the arguments that coaching dramatically impacts a team's likelihood of winning, and that although top tier coaches/staffs don't always work out, they usually do, then I don't see how anyone could reasonably claim that Syracuse doesn't have the money to spend on a top tier coach (and staff). In fact, I would argue that we don't have the money to not spend money on a top tier coach (and staff).

...and that's true for both SUAD and the academic side as well. After Mason had their magical FF run, some professors did a study, and the run was worth something like $100 million for the school (I can't remember the exact number) and it actually improved the school's academic standing. There was an otherwise unexpected spike in applications, and the test scores of the next year's freshman class was actually statistically higher than they expected.

The difference between spending $1-2 million vs. $7-10 million on a coach is peanuts when you're staring down the barrel of another $20-30 million in athletic revenue, who knows how much in donations, and who knows how many more high quality applications. Please, please be smart enough to spend the money to hire a good coach. It will be the cheapest money that you ever spent. It really will.

 

[721Comstock]

I realize that there are all kinds of revenue recognition issues/discrepancies with DoE "Equity in Athletics" numbers, but I feel like they're ballpark accurate. With that in mind, look at Baylor. They reported something liek $120 million last year (or thereabouts - I can't remember the exact number). That's frigging Baylor, not FSU, PSU, OSU, or any other "SU." It's BAYLOR. They have next to no history and they don't have an especially large fan base. But, they do have a good coach and a good coaching staff, and they have been winning. That's how much winning matters. It's literally worth tens of MILLIONS of dollars in revenue PLUS who know how much exposure for the school. If you're willing to buy the arguments that coaching dramatically impacts a team's likelihood of winning, and that although top tier coaches/staffs don't always work out, they usually do, then I don't see how anyone could reasonably claim that Syracuse doesn't have the money to spend on a top tier coach (and staff). In fact, I would argue that we don't have the money to not spend money on a top tier coach (and staff).

...and that's true for both SUAD and the academic side as well. After Mason had their magical FF run, some professors did a study, and the run was worth something like $100 million for the school (I can't remember the exact number) and it actually improved the school's academic standing. There was an otherwise unexpected spike in applications, and the test scores of the next year's freshman class was actually statistically higher than they expected.

The difference between spending $1-2 million vs. $7-10 million on a coach is peanuts when you're staring down the barrel of another $20-30 million in athletic revenue, who knows how much in donations, and who knows how many more high quality applications. Please, please be smart enough to spend the money to hire a good coach. It will be the cheapest money that you ever spent. It really will.

This makes far too much sense. There's no way anyone from SUAD would ever read, or understand it.

 

[Quazzum69]

I realize that there are all kinds of revenue recognition issues/discrepancies with DoE "Equity in Athletics" numbers, but I feel like they're ballpark accurate. With that in mind, look at Baylor. They reported something liek $120 million last year (or thereabouts - I can't remember the exact number). That's frigging Baylor, not FSU, PSU, OSU, or any other "SU." It's BAYLOR. They have next to no history and they don't have an especially large fan base. But, they do have a good coach and a good coaching staff, and they have been winning. That's how much winning matters. It's literally worth tens of MILLIONS of dollars in revenue PLUS who know how much exposure for the school. If you're willing to buy the arguments that coaching dramatically impacts a team's likelihood of winning, and that although top tier coaches/staffs don't always work out, they usually do, then I don't see how anyone could reasonably claim that Syracuse doesn't have the money to spend on a top tier coach (and staff). In fact, I would argue that we don't have the money to not spend money on a top tier coach (and staff).

...and that's true for both SUAD and the academic side as well. After Mason had their magical FF run, some professors did a study, and the run was worth something like $100 million for the school (I can't remember the exact number) and it actually improved the school's academic standing. There was an otherwise unexpected spike in applications, and the test scores of the next year's freshman class was actually statistically higher than they expected.

The difference between spending $1-2 million vs. $7-10 million on a coach is peanuts when you're staring down the barrel of another $20-30 million in athletic revenue, who knows how much in donations, and who knows how many more high quality applications. Please, please be smart enough to spend the money to hire a good coach. It will be the cheapest money that you ever spent. It really will.

I have a hard time believing that winning 2 or 3 more games each year = an additional 20 to 30 million in athletic department revenue per year.

Where does this money come from? The increase in ticket revenue is definitely not that much. Going to a bowl 4/5 years instead of 1/5 like now is only going to increase revenue an average of a million per year (assuming we get $ 1.7 million like the Texas Bowl).

Maybe the donations really increase but it just seems like if it was guaranteed, everyone would be doing this and Saban's salary would be bid up to like 12 million a year.

The revenue per additional win for Syracuse is less than the cost per additional guaranteed win and that's why we we'll get another cheap coach.

How much is a win worth to SUAD (does anyone have a $ value)?

 

[nzm136]

I have a hard time believing that winning 2 or 3 more games each year = an additional 20 to 30 million in athletic department revenue per year.

Where does this money come from? The increase in ticket revenue is definitely not that much. Going to a bowl 4/5 years instead of 1/5 like now is only going to increase revenue an average of a million per year (assuming we get $ 1.7 million like the Texas Bowl).

Maybe the donations really increase but it just seems like if it was guaranteed, everyone would be doing this and Saban's salary would be bid up to like 12 million a year.

The revenue per additional win for Syracuse is less than the cost per additional guaranteed win and that's why we we'll get another cheap coach.

How much is a win worth to SUAD (does anyone have a $ value)?

A top tier coach will win more than 6 games a year. You just described a low end of average average coach. A top tier coach would win an additional 6-7 games a year, not 2-3. And the money would come from ticket sales, merchandise/licensing, donations, some top tier neutral site games, a slight uptick in bowl revenue (although this is split by the conference), a slight increase in TV money next time the ACC renegotiates (but this won't come for another ~10 years and is split by the conference) and concessions. But to answer your question succinctly, the biggest levers are ticket sales and donations.

Imagine a world where Syracuse is overrunning with school pride during the football season (like A&M after Johnny Football won the Heisman) the Dome sells out in a sea of orange and people have to make donations to even get tickets. Noe imagine a world where we literally can't give football tickets away. Now imagine the difference.

Don't take my word for it, though. Look at the Equity in Athletics numbers for yourself. Read about the increase in TAMU's donations for yourself. Read about the economic/academic impact of Mason's FF run for yourself. All of this is very public information (i.e. this isn't some crazy theory that I cooked up - there is actual proof because it's been done).

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"Maybe the donations really increase but it just seems like if it was guaranteed, everyone would be doing this and Saban's salary would be bid up to like 12 million a year."

Yeah, look at coaches' salaries over the last decade. What you described is absolutely happening. Syracuse can either be in the forefront and profit before everyone else reacts (it's politically easier for us because we are private and don't have to worry about a senator grandstanding about "excessively" paid public employees), or we can follow the crowd and be perpetually behind. I'd rather use our status as a private school to our advantage and make a quick buck.

Btw, UConn's old men's bball coach, Calhoun, actually discussed his economic impact in one of his press conferences in 2010(?) when he was called out for being "overpaid" during the Great Recession. Both his answer and the fact that the question was asked highlight the importance of SU moving, and our relative advantage if we do decide to move.

 

[Ringostar57]

A head coach is only as good as his assistants and the assistants get better with a good head coach as boss. All these people know their x's and o's some are more creative. A few like to take risks. Some are very good teachers of technique and have a handle of fitting different techniques to different players based on talent/ability. Some are very good motivators appealing to a players self/team pride. Assistants are a dime a dozen but very good ones are hard to find. A good Head Coach knows when to delegate and how much to delegate to his assistants based on their knowledge and competence in teaching the players. Its all in the details the smallest details. There cannot be any failures in communication. A head coach cannot put up with any crap from his players or assistants. Whether you are going to be a winner or a loser is determined in the first week by the actions that a HC and coaching staff take. It will determine what players stay and what players go. Its not an easy job. They are paid based on the teams performance i.e. winning/losing to a great extent determined by the potential marginal revenue that accrues to the program if they win. And they are paid or expect to be paid accordingly. And if they fail....they get fired. It's a club that shakes itself out like any other profession. The better ones get hired for better jobs and are paid more, and the mediocre get the scraps.

 

[nzm136]

We offered Frost $1.2 million. That's inexcusable. Whoever decided that $1.2 million was our budget for a head coach is a moron.

 

[721Comstock]

We offered Frost $1.2 million. That's inexcusable. Whoever decided that $1.2 million was our budget for a head coach is a moron.

What if it was $1.2M base with another $1.8M in incentives?

We don't actually know the details.

 

[nzm136]

What if it was $1.2M base with another $1.8M in incentives?

We don't actually know the details.

Fair enough, but we were outbid by UCF, so it couldn't have been that great. And yes I know the contracts could have been structured differently (i.e. maybe they had a cheaper Nebraska buyout, etc.), but my point still stands. With enough money, he would have looked the other way, and how much could UCF have possibly offered him?

 

[OrangeJohn]

It all started by hiring Art Briles. Baylor was a gigantic dumpster fire for a very long time. They did not belong in the Big 12 at all until Briles turned things around. High school coach who turned a bad high school team into one the winningest teams. Goes to Houston and immediately turns things around (Willie Fritz's career is very similar). He didn't need 5 years to get his guys in there.

What made it possible to steal Briles from Houston to Baylor? A decent salary and membership in a BCS conference (What we have by being P5).

Spend the money, get the coach, get the wins, get the money, lather, rinse, repeat.

Virtuous cycle versus the current death cycle.

 

[rrlbees]

We offered Frost $1.2 million. That's inexcusable. Whoever decided that $1.2 million was our budget for a head coach is a moron.

No we didn't

 

[rrlbees]

Fair enough, but we were outbid by UCF, so it couldn't have been that great. And yes I know the contracts could have been structured differently (i.e. maybe they had a cheaper Nebraska buyout, etc.), but my point still stands. With enough money, he would have looked the other way, and how much could UCF have possibly offered him?

No we weren't

 

[nzm136]

No we weren't

Check the time of the post. That was the prevailing opinion at the time, and overwhelmingly so.

(The same response also applies to your other post)

 

[nzm136]

It all started by hiring Art Briles. Baylor was a gigantic dumpster fire for a very long time. They did not belong in the Big 12 at all until Briles turned things around. High school coach who turned a bad high school team into one the winningest teams. Goes to Houston and immediately turns things around (Willie Fritz's career is very similar). He didn't need 5 years to get his guys in there.

What made it possible to steal Briles from Houston to Baylor? A decent salary and membership in a BCS conference (What we have by being P5).

Spend the money, get the coach, get the wins, get the money, lather, rinse, repeat.

Virtuous cycle versus the current death cycle.

Exactly. Why we don't go out and aggressively attract a coach is beyond me.