Is a Special Teams coach that important?

[OburgOrange]

I keep seeing references scattered throughout various posts that some people think we need a full time ST coach. I had this discussion with OX at the last tailgate. He told me that there isn't a team in the ACC that has a full time ST coach. His opinion is that we don't need a full time ST assistant. My argument was that we do. What say you?

 

[Rocco]

I think we should spend $500k annually on one. It's one of the 3 facets of the game. It needs to be taken seriously.

That coach should also be a stud recruiter.

 

[OburgOrange]

I think we should spend $500k annually on one. It's one of the 3 facets of the game. It needs to be taken seriously.

That coach should also be a stud recruiter.

So why don't we have one?

 

[MSOrange]

I think we should spend $500k annually on one. It's one of the 3 facets of the game. It needs to be taken seriously.

That coach should also be a stud recruiter.

I agree that we should hire a ST coach, but $500k seems a bit pricey to me.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You're only allowed to have 9 assistant coaches.

DC
DLine
LB's
DB's
OC/QB's
TE's
OL's
RB's
WR's.

Nobody in the ACC has a full time dedicated Special Teams Coach. ST duties are usually shared among the other assistant coaches.

 

[OburgOrange]

You're only allowed to have 9 assistant coaches.

DC
DLine
LB's
DB's
OC/QB's
TE's
OL's
RB's
WR's.

Nobody in the ACC has a full time dedicated Special Teams Coach. ST duties are usually shared among the other assistant coaches.

That's right. You did say that also.

 

[Crusty]

Which assistant do we give up to have a ST Coach?
NCAA Article 11: Conduct and Employment of Athletics Personnel:

11.7.2 Football Bowl Subdivision - There shall be a limit of one head coach, nine assistant coaches and two graduate assistant coaches who may be employed by an institution in bowl subdivision football.

11.7.2.1 Exceptions to Number Limits FBS - No individual other than coaches designated to fill the coaching categories set forth in Bylaw 11.7.2 may participate in any manner in the coaching of the intercollegiate team of a member institution during any football game, practice or other organized activity, with the following exceptions:

11.7.2.1.1 Weight or Strength Coach FBS - A weight (strength and conditioning) coach may conduct flexibility, warm-up and physical conditioning activities prior to any game and prior to or during any practice or other organized activities without being included in the limitations on number of coaches.

11.7.2.1.2 Undergraduate Coach FBS - The limits on the number of coaches in this section do not apply to undergraduate coaches.

 

[RICuse44]

OC combos with QBs. Don't see why TE coach can't take over specials.

 

[TheCusian]

OC combos with QBs. Don't see why TE coach can't take over specials.

I'm pretty sure Coach Doust does the most with ST. He's our de facto guy. I think some people just like to hang a title on a guy do they know how to blame (or praise, but mostly blame).

 

[Crusty]

I seem to remember that Saint Doug took charge of ST in his last year.

 

[Rocco]

I agree that we should hire a ST coach, but $500k seems a bit pricey to me.

No question, I'm very "tongue-in-cheek" on this topic. I said in my other thread that we needed a full-time ST coach. Our band of brothers isn't cutting it and we have ZERO highlight reel opportunities with this system.

 

[TheCusian]

No question, I'm very "tongue-in-cheek" on this topic. I said in my other thread that we needed a full-time ST coach. Our band of brothers isn't cutting it and we have ZERO highlight reel opportunities with this system.

What about Dixon's 40 yard fake punt vs ND? Took the penalty and the whole ND defense was sleeping. Loved it.

 

[SmilinBob]

It depends on how much time each assigned coach has to spend with the ST. Obviously they didn't have one work on blocking for returns or they did a horrible job but the rest of the ST were solid or better.

 

[FAL]

Oh Lord

It depends on how much time each assigned coach has to spend with the ST. Obviously they didn't have one work on blocking for returns or they did a horrible job but the rest of the ST were solid or better.

Except for that Duke punt return for aTD. Oh Lord

 

[NineOneSeven]

Thank god for that TE coach

 

[TheCusian]

Thank god for that TE coach

He's the best NJ recruiter we've had in 15 years.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He's the best NJ recruiter we've had in 15 years.

What I am saying is, I think a full time special teams coach has more benefit than a full time TE coach.

imo of course.

 

[Finwad32]

Daoust handles the lion's share of our ST. And, to be honest, I've seen some of the best fake set ups in my life in the past 2 years from Syracuse.

But

Our kickoff coverage, and more specifically, punt coverage unit have been sub par. I wish they'd utilize the sideline more on punts. I understand we're looking for fair catches by using the center of the field, but, that's where we've been burned from.

 

[TheCusian]

Daoust handles the lion's share of our ST. And, to be honest, I've seen some of the best fake set ups in my life in the past 2 years from Syracuse.

But

Our kickoff coverage, and more specifically, punt coverage unit have been sub par. I wish they'd utilize the sideline more on punts. I understand we're looking for fair catches by using the center of the field, but, that's where we've been burned from.

I think the only thing we need shoring up is punt return and punt coverage. Kick off returns we are #22 nationally...

I also think the TE coach is about to become more important in Lester's O.

 

[Finwad32]

I think the only thing we need shoring up is punt return and punt coverage. Kick off returns we are #22 nationally...

I also think the TE coach is about to become more important in Lester's O.

Good thoughts. I knew when I was typing that I was underappreciating the KO Coverage Unit, but 22nd nationally, that's very solid. Especially against the competition we've played.

Just as a corollary though, alot of times your KO coverage unit is indicative of your offense. Not alot of points = not alot of opportunities against our KO Unit.

Still, kudos for that.

 

[TheCusian]

Good thoughts. I knew when I was typing that I was underappreciating the KO Coverage Unit, but 22nd nationally, that's very solid. Especially against the competition we've played. Just as a corollary though, alot of times your KO coverage unit is indicative of your offense. Not alot of points = not alot of opportunities against our KO Unit. Still, kudos for that.

Ahh - very true. Good point.

 

[ImperialOrange]

If I were a HC I would get rid of the position of TE coach in favor of a ST coach. TE's can spend some time with OL and some time with WR groups.

Special teams are the main reason Va Tech was ever reasonably successful and the only reason Rutgers has had a modicum of success.

Perfect example of this is the 98 Cuse - Va Tech game. We all remember winning this nail bitter; the long DMac5 run, the puke, and of course the Brominksi pass. I was looking at the box score last week and the only reason that game was within 20 was special teams.

Total yardage
SU 420 - Va Tech 152

Tech scored 7 points on a long touchdown run. Aside from that was 7 from a blocked punt return, 7 from a 78 yard fumble return and 2 from a blocked PAT they returned to go up 23-22 immediately after we went ahead 22-21.

http://cuse.com/sports/2007/4/11/vtbox11.14.98.aspx

 

[PhatOrange]

Thanks for bringing this up. I recognize full well the importance of special teams but the crying around here for a full-time Special Teams coordinator is non-sense and paying him 500K is ridiculous. There’s not a team in the nation who has a full time special teams coordinator ‘only’ coach. Everyone of them is also a position coach.

The highest paid special teams coordinator I can find is Bobby Williams at Alabama who’s also the Tight Ends coach. He makes 400K

Virginia Tech doesn’t have a coach on their staff with the Special Teams title.

 

[Chip]

Virginia Tech doesn’t have a coach on their staff with the Special Teams title.

Does Beamer still do it? Their special teams haven't been as special in quite some time. I think it's not a sustainable way to top end success, thru defense and ST, but they had a nice run. By now, I think they know they have to try on offense too.

I don't think an ST coach is the best use of resources unless we really think we have the athletes to make the ST truly special. Otherwise, just let the existing staff handle it, and you don't have to be world beaters. You just have to be solid. Do your job, coach in the discipline, and don't give up big plays. On your own returns, take your best combo of speed and not going to fumble the ball, and let him do returns. Kicker and punter, just recruit it as best you can.

I noticed in the Duke game, that Erv Phillips was off the KR team. They need to work him in as PR. All the practice he needs. Seems like he's built much more for that job than KR.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

The Syracuse fan in me that actually wants to see this team win games says, "Hell Yes!" We have consistently seen this team start off with much worse field position than the opposition due to poor special teams play despite have what I would consider to be an excellent punter and an adequate place kicker for FG in Murphy. How do you do that? You fail to teach proper punt and kickoff coverage and return. Our offense isn't able to move down the field very well or score. When you force our offense to go 80 - 90 yards on every drive, you make it that much harder and less likely that we will score. Our failure to score points isn't just due to poor offense, its also due to starting with poor field position due to failures on special teams. It isn't that we are lacking a returner with speed or moves, it is that we haven't been able to teach a returner when to return it and when to call for fair catch and haven't taught the return team to block systematically properly to create a lane to shoot through.

Virginia Tech has historically consistently excelled at special teams and has won many, many games solely due to special teams.

Do we need a coach that does nothing but ST? No, we can't afford that with only 9 coaches. But we do need to have a ST coordinator who is also a position coach. One person who is responsible for that aspect of the game. I would hope that position coach could figure out or learn from someone who has figured out how to create a proper blocking scheme on punt and KO returns and how to provide proper punt and KO coverage. We are poor at both. We have no one accountable for ST and it seems and looks like an afterthought.