It's not just that we're losing

[Ozcuse]

It's the way we're losing and how badly we are losing. A loss is a loss but perception wise, I'd rather lose by a point, a FG, or a TD than lose by 3+ TD's.

These are the worst losses by year in the Marrone era:

2009- Lost by 27 points (@ #14 Pitt 10-37)

2010- Lost by 31 points (Pitt 14-45)

2011- Lost by 21 points (@ USC 17-38)

2012- Lost by 14 points (#2 USC 28-42)

Now compare that to 2013-2014 in the Shafer era where we have already had 3 losses in 18 games worse than any of Doug Marrone's 50 games.

2013- Lost by 35 to Clemson, lost by 56 to Georgia Tech, and lost by 56 to Florida State.

Now you can say that it's an upgrade in competition however there has also been an upgrade in overall talent on our end as well. Doug Marrone also tended to get the team ready for good competition beating ranked WVU 3 times, ranked UL, and keeping respectable scores against USC.

I don't think the defensive strategy has changed, we've been high-risk, high-reward since Shafer arrived and it has burned us in the ACC but the offense the last 18 games has been pretty terrible against peer competition.

We have only broken 30 once against peer competition in 18 games (34-31 vs. Boston College)

This needs to change or we're gonna be Wake Forest 2.0 in the ACC.

I'm not criticizing Shafer at all for taking out McD he just wasn't up to the challenge.

 

[Millhouse]

It's the way we're losing and how badly we are losing. A loss is a loss but perception wise, I'd rather lose by a point, a FG, or a TD than lose by 3+ TD's.

These are the worst losses by year in the Marrone era:

2009- Lost by 27 points (@ #14 Pitt 10-37)

2010- Lost by 31 points (Pitt 14-45)

2011- Lost by 21 points (@ USC 17-38)

2012- Lost by 14 points (#2 USC 28-42)

Now compare that to 2013-2014 in the Shafer era where we have already had 3 losses in 18 games worse than any of Doug Marrone's 50 games.

2013- Lost by 35 to Clemson, lost by 56 to Georgia Tech, and lost by 56 to Florida State.

Now you can say that it's an upgrade in competition however there has also been an upgrade in overall talent on our end as well. Doug Marrone also tended to get the team ready for good competition beating ranked WVU 3 times, ranked UL, and keeping respectable scores against USC.

I don't think the defensive strategy has changed, we've been high-risk, high-reward since Shafer arrived and it has burned us in the ACC but the offense the last 18 games has been pretty terrible against peer competition.

We have only broken 30 once against peer competition in 18 games (34-31 vs. Boston College)

This needs to change or we're gonna be Wake Forest 2.0 in the ACC.

I'm not criticizing Shafer at all for taking out McD he just wasn't up to the challenge.

one thing that prevented marrone from getting beat like that was not having to play clemson and florida state.

the gt game, i'll give you that one.

USC is overrated every year in september. And Pitt is no FSU or Clemson

 

[RF2044]

There's no doubt that those three losses last year were disconcerting. And you didn't even include the Northwestern loss, which was another lopsided blowout that wasn't nearly as close as the final score [I know, because unfortunately I was there to see the game in person]. After the Clemson game last year, I began to get really nervous about how unprepared our coaches / players seemed.

But then they rallied, the defense improved exponentially, and we played much better down the stretch. We finished the season on a high note, won our bowl, and all of that gave me confidence that the coaching staff--many of whom were new coaches, implementing new systems, some of whom were in stretch roles--had "passed" the test of their batism by fire.

I was greatly looking forward to seeing what the coaching staff would do this year, now that they had a year's worth of experience under their belts, and had so many starters returning.

Obviously, the results thus far have been underwhelming and disappointing. How could a team with so much returning, experieinced starters struggle so badly? Where are the wins going to come from?

Not the FSU game, because that would be unfair to saddle the staff with that expectation, but beyond that--can this group rally again and get the team to play better ball? The gauntlet has been thrown by Shafer in terms of not tolerating unacceptable performance. It will be interesting to see if this group can somehow turn things around, or whether they just aren't up to the task, and Year One was a mirage.

 

[Crusty]

Ryan Nassib - Terrel Hunt

 

[Millhouse]

one thing i will give marrone is that they never got shutout. that matters to me more than it should.

those last 2 home games in 2010 were pretty brutal though. even though BC and Uconn couldn't score, those felt just as bad at least on offense

 

[Millhouse]

Ryan Nassib - Terrel Hunt

nassib didn't play defense. plenty of offensive stinkers in 2010-2011

 

[Doctor44]

Marrone would play to keep games close. We'd play very conservative to avoid a blow out at the expense of possibly getting back in games. I think we remember being frustrated about never going for it on 4th down.

The one that really sticks in my memory is his first year with Paulus at Penn state. We we're down 21-7 in the 4th quarter and punted from our 50 yard line. Ended up losing 28-10. His teams would fight and we're ready to play, but for the most part, he played to keep us in games. There was no go big or go home.

I think as he became more comfortable, our teams developed - he took more chances - fake punts/ FG, Flea Flickers etc.

__________________________________________________________________________________

The thing that I'm most frustrated with is the incompetence with our teams now. This leads us to blow outs. _ Giving up big plays after big play (not just 1-2 a game). Maryland on that bubble screen. The pick 6 to Maryland. The deep play action against ND to open the second half. Louisville had chucks of yardage every time they needed a play. compare that to our relative ineffectiveness on offense and its enough make me want to break something.

If our defense is going to give up big plays, our offense has to be high scoring. If our offense is low scoring, our D has to be shut down. we have the worst of both worlds.

 

[Millhouse]

Marrone would play to keep games close. We'd play very conservative to avoid a blow out at the expense of possibly getting back in games. I think we remember being frustrated about never going for it on 4th down.

The one that really sticks in my memory is his first year with Paulus at Penn state. We we're down 21-7 in the 4th quarter and punted from our 50 yard line. Ended up losing 28-10. His teams would fight and we're ready to play, but for the most part, he played to keep us in games. There was no go big or go home.

I think as he became more comfortable, our teams developed - he took more chances - fake punts/ FG, Flea Flickers etc.

__________________________________________________________________________________

The thing that I'm most frustrated with is the incompetence with our teams now. This leads us to blow outs. _ Giving up big plays after big play (not just 1-2 a game). Maryland on that bubble screen. The pick 6 to Maryland. The deep play action against ND to open the second half. Louisville had chucks of yardage every time they needed a play. compare that to our relative ineffectiveness on offense and its enough make me want to break something.

If our defense is going to give up big plays, our offense has to be high scoring. If our offense is low scoring, our D has to be shut down. we have the worst of both worlds.

it's not like shafer is any better about punting though

 

[Millhouse]

i suspect had marrone played GT, it would've been a mess on defense too considering that shafer was running the defense then too. i'm sure the offense would've done better though

 

[Doctor44]

it's not like shafer is any better about punting though

I don't know. I get the sense that Shafer plays these games to win. We don't try to the run the ball and keep the clock moving and shorten the game. He has an aggressive offense and defense, which really expose our incompetence against better competition

 

[OrangeFoo]

There's no doubt that those three losses last year were disconcerting. And you didn't even include the Northwestern loss, which was another lopsided blowout that wasn't nearly as close as the final score [I know, because unfortunately I was there to see the game in person]. After the Clemson game last year, I began to get really nervous about how unprepared our coaches / players seemed.

But then they rallied, the defense improved exponentially, and we played much better down the stretch. We finished the season on a high note, won our bowl, and all of that gave me confidence that the coaching staff--many of whom were new coaches, implementing new systems, some of whom were in stretch roles--had "passed" the test of their batism by fire.

I was greatly looking forward to seeing what the coaching staff would do this year, now that they had a year's worth of experience under their belts, and had so many starters returning.

Obviously, the results thus far have been underwhelming and disappointing. How could a team with so much returning, experieinced starters struggle so badly? Where are the wins going to come from?

Not the FSU game, because that would be unfair to saddle the staff with that expectation, but beyond that--can this group rally again and get the team to play better ball? The gauntlet has been thrown by Shafer in terms of not tolerating unacceptable performance. It will be interesting to see if this group can somehow turn things around, or whether they just aren't up to the task, and Year One was a mirage.

I was at that NW game too... It was shocking how bad we were in the first 3 quarters of that game. Our defense was literally 10 yards away from any NW player who had the ball. We made a what turned out to be a pretty mediocre NW team look like the Buffalo Bills K-gun offense. It was embarrassing and by half time I was ready to leave the stadium and hit a bar. I've had doubts about Shafer and company since that game and while the end of last season kind of put some of those doubts to rest this year has brought them to the surface with full force. I think we need to remember how truly bad most of the teams we played last year were. We got lucky that BC and Minnesota run pro-style offenses for the most part otherwise I doubt we would have won either game. The next spread offense with a decent running QB that Shafer's D stops will be the first.

I don't know... there hasn't been much that this current coaching staff has shown me that makes me believe they should stick around beyond this season. The total regression of so many players is really a bad sign that our guys can't coach and last year was more about drafting off of Marrone and company than anything the current coaches were doing.

I say pull the cord.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't know. I get the sense that Shafer plays these games to win. We don't try to the run the ball and keep the clock moving and shorten the game. He has an aggressive offense and defense, which really expose our incompetence against better competition

he quit against louisville last week punting at the 40

maryland he had a bunch of quitter punts

second game he coached, he punted from the 42 down 21 with 16 minutes left

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think when you're losing big, you wish you were losing close games, and when you're losing close games you think you'd feel less frustrated if you were losing big.

 

[OttoMets]

I was at that NW game too... It was shocking how bad we were in the first 3 quarters of that game. Our defense was literally 10 yards away from any NW player who had the ball. We made a what turned out to be a pretty mediocre NW team look like the Buffalo Bills K-gun offense. It was embarrassing and by half time I was ready to leave the stadium and hit a bar. I've had doubts about Shafer and company since that game and while the end of last season kind of put some of those doubts to rest this year has brought them to the surface with full force. I think we need to remember how truly bad most of the teams we played last year were. We got lucky that BC and Minnesota run pro-style offenses for the most part otherwise I doubt we would have won either game. The next spread offense with a decent running QB that Shafer's D stops will be the first.

I don't know... there hasn't been much that this current coaching staff has shown me that makes me believe they should stick around beyond this season. The total regression of so many players is really a bad sign that our guys can't coach and last year was more about drafting off of Marrone and company than anything the current coaches were doing.

I say pull the cord.

You're not wrong.

I'm still excited for the rest of the season, though.

 

[bevosu]

There's no doubt that those three losses last year were disconcerting.

You get a like for using the word disconcerting instead of concerning.

Edit- I'd like to add that Georgia Tech game to the list of questionable coaching on the part of our coaching staff. That was amateurish.

 

[Moontan]

We we're down 21-7 in the 4th quarter and punted from our 50 yard line.

Even worse... I believe SU had moved the ball to the PSU 50 yard line.

 

[Moontan]

i suspect had marrone played GT, it would've been a mess on defense too considering that shafer was running the defense then too. i'm sure the offense would've done better though

I suspect that FHCDM would've vetoed the drastic change in the defense's front-7 configuration, or would've demanded a switch after the first two series showed that the D's scheme simply wasn't working.