JB and playing upperclassmen

[albanycuse]

I think sometimes jb puts to much emphasis on experience and being a senior , as in just because player x has been in the system for 4 years and knows it well doesnt translate to being a leader and being able to carry the team. Although experience is very important its not a given the player can handle the pressure that comes with it. Some players play better as role players with less pressure.

 

[RF2044]

I think sometimes jb puts to much emphasis on experience and being a senior , as in just because player x has been in the system for 4 years and knows it well doesnt translate to being a leader and being able to carry the team. Although experience is very important its not a given the player can handle the pressure that comes with it. Some players play better as role players with less pressure.

You're right--it isn't a given. But there is also a difference between "can't" and "hasn't done it yet." We've seen examples where players entering their senior years haven't shown it yet, and then step up and rise to the occasion when playing an expanded role. Damone, DNic, Andy, Scoop, Griffin, etc. I can't really think of any examples where a senior has shown that he can't handle the pressure that comes with an expanded role when they are already proven contributors in the rotation.

Ultimately, I trust JBs judgement when it comes to the lineup. He has shown no qualms about playing younger players when the talent disparity warrants it, regardless of what the igor's of the world claim. I think that sometimes this forum has a tendency to overestimate the readiness factor in certain cases with certain inexperienced players, and a tendency to underestimate what veterans bring to the table beyond just the raw talent factor. JB knows what he has--he sees them every day in practice.

 

[br801]

I think sometimes jb puts to much emphasis on experience and being a senior , as in just because player x has been in the system for 4 years and knows it well doesnt translate to being a leader and being able to carry the team. Although experience is very important its not a given the player can handle the pressure that comes with it. Some players play better as role players with less pressure.

I have to tip my hat to you, albanycuse. First you start a Cooney thread to carry out your anti-Triche agenda, and now you start this one. You're good, but you're becoming too predictable. Why not just change your avatar to a picture of a clown and be done with it.

 

[albanycuse]

I have to tip my hat to you, albanycuse. First you start a Cooney thread to carry out your anti-Triche agenda, and now you start this one. You're good, but you're becoming too predictable. Why not just change your avatar to a picture of a clown and be done with it.

Then i would become you. Im not anti- triche , youre just not bright enough to see the light. im surprised you can find the board but i like you because youre a cuse fan i think.

 

[br801]

Then i would become you. Im not anti- triche , youre just not bright enough to see the light. im surprised you can find the board but i like you because youre a cuse fan i think.

I like you too, at least I did until you started telling me I'm ignorant and not bright. Now I'm just devastated.

 

[albanycuse]

I like you too, at least I did until you started telling me I'm ignorant and not bright. Now I'm just devastated.

Ill still let you buy me dinner.

 

[Nerlo Rangel]

I think sometimes jb puts to much emphasis on experience and being a senior , as in just because player x has been in the system for 4 years and knows it well doesnt translate to being a leader and being able to carry the team. Although experience is very important its not a given the player can handle the pressure that comes with it. Some players play better as role players with less pressure.

i agree that last year there were plenty of games where MCW played excellent ball in the 1st half, then boeheim wouldn't even put him in the game for the 2nd. afterwards, boeheim would usually say that he needed to have triche or scoop in there because of their experience.

i don't buy it. it's nearly an oxymoronic situation. how is a kid suppose to gain experience if he isn't given the chance to develop any? i'm sure there have been recruits who have crossed SU off the list because one of their main priorities is to get tons of mins their freshman year. i wish jimmy would allow the youngens to battle through their mistakes rather than benching them. give them a slightly longer leash.

 

[pfister1]

i agree that last year there were plenty of games where MCW played excellent ball in the 1st half, then boeheim wouldn't even put him in the game for the 2nd. afterwards, boeheim would usually say that he needed to have triche or scoop in there because of their experience.

i don't buy it. it's nearly an oxymoronic situation. how is a kid suppose to gain experience if he isn't given the chance to develop any? i'm sure there have been recruits who have crossed SU off the list because one of their main priorities is to get tons of mins their freshman year. i wish jimmy would allow the youngens to battle through their mistakes rather than benching them. give them a slightly longer leash.

He does when they deserve it, and their isn't someone else more deserving. See CJ Fair ('11 - 18.6 mpg); Triche ('10 - 21.3 mpg); Flynn ('08 - 35.5 mpg); Donte Greene ('08 - 35.8 mpg); Scoop ('08 - 19.6 mpg); Paul Harris ('07 - 21.7 mpg); Devendorf ('06 - 27 mpg); Melo ('03 - 36.4 mpg); GMac ('03 - 35.3 mpg); Billy E. ('03 - 23.2 mpg); Forth ('02 - 21.6 mpg).

Its actually relatively rare when he does what he did the last two seasons to Rak and the Fabulous one

 

[Nerlo Rangel]

He does when they deserve it, and their isn't someone else more deserving. See CJ Fair ('11 - 18.6 mpg); Triche ('10 - 21.3 mpg); Flynn ('08 - 35.5 mpg); Donte Greene ('08 - 35.8 mpg); Scoop ('08 - 19.6 mpg); Paul Harris ('07 - 21.7 mpg); Devendorf ('06 - 27 mpg); Melo ('03 - 36.4 mpg); GMac ('03 - 35.3 mpg); Billy E. ('03 - 23.2 mpg); Forth ('02 - 21.6 mpg).

Its actually relatively rare when he does what he did the last two seasons to Rak and the Fabulous one

the majority of those you listed HAD to stay in the game because there wasn't anyone to replace them. in recent years SU has had a deep bench, but by feb, regardless of how the young guys are playing, that rotation has gone from 10 to 7, sometimes even 6.

i see grant and cooney getting the short leash treatment next year. i think he'll allow DC to play through mistakes more often, since we need his rebounding and size.

 

[SBU72]

I think sometimes jb puts to much emphasis on experience and being a senior , as in just because player x has been in the system for 4 years and knows it well doesnt translate to being a leader and being able to carry the team. Although experience is very important its not a given the player can handle the pressure that comes with it. Some players play better as role players with less pressure.

Its become clearer that JB doesn't just look at the experience level. He gives the older guys more time/lee way because he has a better idea what to expect from them. When they don't meet that expectation he does pull them. (ie Scoop being bad Scoop) It's not only don't the young guys have esperience, JB still doesn't know what to expect from them and he doesn't like surprises when it could be a bad surprise.

 

[albanycuse]

Its become clearer that JB doesn't just look at the experience level. He gives the older guys more time/lee way because he has a better idea what to expect from them. When they don't meet that expectation he does pull them. (ie Scoop being bad Scoop) It's not only don't the young guys have esperience, JB still doesn't know what to expect from them and he doesn't like surprises when it could be a bad surprise.

Thats up for debate, mcw should of played more, no reason he should of sat on the bench during the tourny, not even a chance to get experience in that setting/pressure which would of been great for his development.

 

[cuseincincy]

i see grant and cooney getting the short leash treatment next year. i think he'll allow DC to play through mistakes more often, since we need his rebounding and size.

If you look at JB's history you've got it reversed. DC would be the one getting the short leash because we have other veteran players like Rak and Baye that can replace him while Cooney will be the 3rd and only other guard no ifs ands or buts about it. personally I hope and expect DC and Cooney to both get lots of time. DC as an expected starter will get more but Rak and Baye will both get some time at the 5. Center = 1 position - 2 potential replacements, Guard= 2 positions - 1 potential replacement.

 

[Nerlo Rangel]

If you look at JB's history you've got it reversed. DC would be the one getting the short leash because we have other veteran players like Rak and Baye that can replace him while Cooney will be the 3rd and only other guard no ifs ands or buts about it. personally I hope and expect DC and Cooney to both get lots of time. DC as an expected starter will get more but Rak and Baye will both get some time at the 5. Center = 1 position - 2 potential replacements, Guard= 2 positions - 1 potential replacement.

true about the depth at positions, but i think boeheim's leash will be even shorter for baye and rak. out of the three guys who can play center, DC will be the most valuable (in my opinion), so him being a freshman won't matter.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Thats up for debate, mcw should of played more, no reason he should of sat on the bench during the tourny, not even a chance to get experience in that setting/pressure which would of been great for his development.

Yeah I think Boeheim was probably more concerned with winning tournament games.

 

[HOFCeluck]

First round blowout.

Against UNC Asheville? Are you really calling that a blowout?

The only time I'd probably consider getting MCW some run was the closing minutes of the KSU game.

 

[albanycuse]

Against UNC Asheville? Are you really calling that a blowout?

The only time I'd probably consider getting MCW some run was the closing minutes of the KSU game.

Lol thats what i meant , this cigar im smoking has me lightheaded : )

 

[orangefan13]

Dion got more minutes then triche last year and deservingly.
My point is Triche was probably our first scoring option the year before. I think JB is going to play his best players. I don't think he is crowning James the minutes next year either but this perception could continue because Grant is just a freshmen. Triche is going to tear it up next year if he can get a step on his man. Like Scoop hes a great finisher in the lane if he can beat his man, only hes taller and also very strong.

I am kinda in the camp MCW should have played more also but you got to understand like the Dukes, UNC's and Kentuckys you roll out your best players to get the best records to get the best recruits. Especially when you get the top recruits. We play in the BE not conference usa. Furthermore nobody here knows if MCW was that ready this year. Its not like the guy was breaking down the teams with ease out there, neither had the body to kill his defender. Where as Flynn was so small and lighting quick, and Edelin was so great at using his strong body from day one MCW was a tall lenghthy skinny pg who bounced the ball high without a great second gear yet, and lacked the ability to get his guy offbalence with ease from dribbling finesse. IMO Dion as a PG was more ready to drive then MCW, and Triche was a better scorer. No knock just a reason to put a ton of work in the offseason instead of spending all the time goofing off in rec camps. The one guy from Nova last year put up 100 in a rec game preseason last year and look where that got Nova. I can see MCW as a gym rat but hes going to need a push from the coaches or someone else who is. Same with Rak if he wants to transition to the four.

 

[SBU72]

Thats up for debate, mcw should of played more, no reason he should of sat on the bench during the tourny, not even a chance to get experience in that setting/pressure which would of been great for his development.

Not really. JB has been quoted that the reason why he played his starters so many minutes was because he knew what to expect from them. He knows player x is likely to score y many points with z rebounds and play a certain way on defense. The new guys present unkowns that he is releuctant to trust beyond a certain point. He recent mode of spreading out the playing time still is centered on playing the guys he is fimiilar with more while giving some freshman some time. In his mind he wasn't going to take a chance on MCW in the tounament when he 3 experienced player he "knew" what to expect things of, even when that expectation was not being met.