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Message: [QUOTE="pfister1, post: 181745, member: 285"] Thoughts: 1. Odds would suggest that if we made the Sweet 16 - 17 times we should have a better record than 4-13 in that round. We don't. It's probably one of two real arguments you can make against JB being among the coaching Elite. The other argument is also related to tourney performance and its summed up by reference to 1978, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 2005 and 2010 - all years where we grossly underperformed our seeding - without rolling out the excuses for why....all teams face adversity. 2. We tend to set our expectations by reference to what the Duke, UNC and Kansas programs have accomplished. In JBs tenure we have had 2 teams seeded #1 and 5 teams seeded #2. I think if you were to look at those other programs you would see that they are more consistently the recipients of better seeding. Clearly it is easier to advance through the first 3 or 4 rounds the better your seed is. You will always be facing a team that you are considered better than - The one seed gets to the Sweet 16 without facing any team higher than an 8. They get to the Elite 8 without having to beat anyone higher than a 4 seed. While those teams can pull upsets, its not as likely to occur as it is with the matchups that a middling seed will face. 3. I would say we have only really outperformed our seeding in a noteworthy manner twice in JB's tenure. Both those years we made it to the championship game 2003 (3 seed) and 1994 (4 seed). What I mean is advanced two rounds beyond where our seed would have placed us. So a 9 through 16 seed advancing to the Sweet Sixteen. A 5 through 8 seed advancing to the Elite Eight. A 3 or 4 seed advancing to the Final Four. FWIW - We have been a 3 or 4 seed - 9 times and advanced to the championship game 2 of those years and been to the Sweet Sixteen all but two of those years. 4. JBs win totals put him among the best coaches of all time, but it might be a mistake for us to consider him among the greatest coaches of all time without acknowledging that what makes him great is his consistency and longevity, not his championships. He has always been a winner and has done that for an exceptionally long period of time. But he has not produced a super high number of championship caliber teams. Without looking at stats I would say that guys like K, Dean, Wooden, Calhoun, Roy Williams etc. will probably finish with a higher number of teams that won conference championships, conference tournament titles and NCAA tournaments than JB. I don't mean to sound like I am denigrating JB because he is Syracuse and I wouldn't trade him for any other coach. That said we should recognize what he is, what he has done really well, and understand that there are some things he hasn't been able to do at the same level as others in the profession, there isn't anything wrong with that. He is still more successful than 99% of the guys who have ever coached, he just isn't likely to ever be among the coaches discussed as the Greatest Basketball Coaches of All Time despite his win totals unless he goes on a run and wins a couple of NCAA tournament titles before he retires. [/QUOTE]

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