JB's adjustment early on

[DonLightfoot]

We were getting hammered in the first few minutes from long range. After the timeout we were up on the outside shooters much better which helped swing the tide. However, according to JB's presser, they still shot 7 of 19 from three after that adjustment. Certainly a pretty high percentage. Let's face it, BC has no real inside game to be honest so getting up on the three pointers was paramount.

It will be interesting to see how we can handle teams with "both" an inside and outside game. It would be nice if we can continue to shoot at 60% as that obviously helps overcome any defensive flaws, but such continuing percentage is a bit of a pipe dream.

I've liked this team from day one due to their hustle and overall effort which makes up for some rather anemic offensive schemes. Here's hoping that effort and hustle can get us some good wins the rest of the way.

 

[CorduroyG]

the goal every game defensively should be to not give up open 3s.

 

[billsin01]

We were getting hammered in the first few minutes from long range. After the timeout we were up on the outside shooters much better which helped swing the tide. However, according to JB's presser, they still shot 7 of 19 from three after that adjustment. Certainly a pretty high percentage. Let's face it, BC has no real inside game to be honest so getting up on the three pointers was paramount.

It will be interesting to see how we can handle teams with "both" an inside and outside game. It would be nice if we can continue to shoot at 60% as that obviously helps overcome any defensive flaws, but such continuing percentage is a bit of a pipe dream.

I've liked this team from day one due to their hustle and overall effort which makes up for some rather anemic offensive schemes. Here's hoping that effort and hustle can get us some good wins the rest of the way.

Teams that live outside the arc exclusively are going to score some points from out there and are fairly likely to at least shoot a halfway decent percentage. I mean, BC drained 15 threes against Duke (not going to happen often) and they have two lights out shooters as well as a solid one in Bowman.

But, obviously three-point defense is a huge factor for every team and it can get better. One thing I'd really like to see is Frank moving shooters off a spot more effectively. He plays it OK and challenges the shot but the bottom line with kids today is they can shoot up to 25 feet (or more) and they can make them at an acceptable rate with a hand in their face. Graham and Heurter killed us by just standing way out and then launching. Really need to make them move their feet to get that look.

 

[billsin01]

the goal every game defensively should be to not give up open 3s.

Yeah, I'm not sure there was that much of an adjustment. Felt more like BC ran some fairly simple motion and we lost track of shooters by being more concerned with the big dude who was catching it 12 feet from the hoop. We weren't great but we did a better job of that after those first six possessions.

 

[kuethstheman]

Yeah, I'm not sure there was that much of an adjustment. Felt more like BC ran some fairly simple motion and we lost track of shooters by being more concerned with the big dude who was catching it 12 feet from the hoop. We weren't great but we did a better job of that after those first six possessions.

When the ball goes to the high post, the guards have to resist the temptation to stand and watch. It wasn't exactly an adjustment but after a minute of JB screaming during the timeout, the guards were more aware of the shooters when the ball went inside.

 

[FrancoPizza]

When the ball goes to the high post, the guards have to resist the temptation to stand and watch. It wasn't exactly an adjustment but after a minute of JB screaming during the timeout, the guards were more aware of the shooters when the ball went inside.

You would think this would be drilled into them in practice but apparently it's not. I understand this essentially amounts to faceguarding the perimeter and losing sight of the ball which goes against instincts, but it would essentially shut down the 3 pt threat. Just trust that chewie and the front court can hold their own. There is no need to triple-team the post. For 90% of teams that we play, the post is just a decoy designed to set up a kick-out.

 

[ar inj]

billsin01 said: One thing I'd really like to see is Frank moving shooters off a spot more effectively.

I agree, but there are 2 guys who play up top. they both need to be better in this regard

 

[CorduroyG]

You would think this would be drilled into them in practice but apparently it's not. I understand this essentially amounts to faceguarding the perimeter and losing sight of the ball which goes against instincts, but it would essentially shut down the 3 pt threat. Just trust that chewie and the front court can hold their own. There is no need to triple-team the post. For 90% of teams that we play, the post is just a decoy designed to set up a kick-out.

exactly. i would let guys take open foul line jumpers all day long.

 

[FrancoPizza]

exactly. i would let guys take open foul line jumpers all day long.

This isn't conceding an open foul line jumper. Just let chewie and the front court decide how to best handle it. Stay in your swim lane and force the post man to beat chewie off the dribble or to make that mid-range shot. Once the postman realizes the kickout isn't there, he'll be more likely to turn and face the basket. That's when we can occasionally double the post and try to force a turnover. Otherwise, just faceguard the god*mn shooters.

 

[kuethstheman]

This isn't conceding an open foul line jumper. Just let chewie and the front court decide how to best handle it. Stay in your swim lane and force the post man to beat chewie off the dribble or to make that mid-range shot. Once the postman realizes the kickout isn't there, he'll be more likely to turn and face the basket. That's when we can occasionally double the post and try to force a turnover. Otherwise, just faceguard the god*mn shooters.

You would think this would be drilled into them in practice but apparently it's not. I understand this essentially amounts to faceguarding the perimeter and losing sight of the ball which goes against instincts, but it would essentially shut down the 3 pt threat. Just trust that chewie and the front court can hold their own. There is no need to triple-team the post. For 90% of teams that we play, the post is just a decoy designed to set up a kick-out.

I think this is one thing that makes our zone a little different. My recollection of classic zone defenses is you stay as close to the ball as you can without leaving your zone. It takes some time to get used to it but i's obvious JB agrees it should be ingrained. He goes ballistic whenever they fail to match up. Or at least, if it leads to a made 3.

The worst part is that when they turn to watch, they usually don't help with the post guy. They don't guard anybody at all.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think this is one thing that makes our zone a little different. My recollection of classic zone defenses is you stay as close to the ball as you can without leaving your zone. It takes some time to get used to it but i's obvious JB agrees it should be ingrained. He goes ballistic whenever they fail to match up. Or at least, if it leads to a made 3.

The worst part is that when they turn to watch, they usually don't help with the post guy. They don't guard anybody at all.

That’s what I saw from Frank early on yesterday and Tyus/Frank during those certain sequences the past month or so. They just stand, face, and watch the dude in the high post. They aren’t trying to really double him or steal it from him nor are they guarding the shooters. Then they have to turn around to get to a shooter and are late.

 

[DonLightfoot]

Important to understand that some teams do have players that can make that jump shot from the high post, BC does not. This comes down to game planning depending on the player receiving the ball in that position. Player "A" you may just leave him alone while player "B" you may have to pressure. For example, if Chukwu gets the ball there you just leave him alone and wait for the pass, while Sidibe has shown the ability to drive from there and needs to be guarded differently. Depends on the team and individual players.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Important to understand that some teams do have players that can make that jump shot from the high post, BC does not. This comes down to game planning depending on the player receiving the ball in that position. Player "A" you may just leave him alone while player "B" you may have to pressure. For example, if Chukwu gets the ball there you just leave him alone and wait for the pass, while Sidibe has shown the ability to drive from there and needs to be guarded differently. Depends on the team and individual players.

We got it, thanks. That’s why it was unacceptable early on them getting clean looks. Boeheim was furious and gave Frank an earful twice. He also mentioned it in the presser how they didn’t guard those threes well early on. Then they settled down and played a good defensive game. Can’t have those breakdowns and give away points against teams who will be much more difficult to score on than BC.

 

[upperdeck]

The issue often comes to the 2nd / 3rd rotation. Pass into the post and center comes up and 1 guard comes down is fine, but the other guard has to be moving for the escape pass. if you make the out of post pass harder, then they often have to make 1-2 more passes and others have time to react.. the first few possessions we didnt anticipate and left guys open.. we also just flat didnt get out on the shooters.. but after that BC had multiple possessions where they were just awful, no movement, 3-4 guys standing outside the foul line and that made our life a bunch easier.

 

[rrlbees]

We got it, thanks. That’s why it was unacceptable early on them getting clean looks. Boeheim was furious and gave Frank an earful twice. He also mentioned it in the presser how they didn’t guard those threes well early on. Then they settled down and played a good defensive game. Can’t have those breakdowns and give away points against teams who will be much more difficult to score on than BC.

That would be Frank once and Moyer once for the 3’s. He called time after Moyer didn’t rotate.

 

[billsin01]

billsin01 said: One thing I'd really like to see is Frank moving shooters off a spot more effectively.

I agree, but there are 2 guys who play up top. they both need to be better in this regard

Yup. Battle could be better but frank seems to be the primary offender st least as I’m watching. Not saying he’s lazy — but I think we have to get comfortable expanding that zone at ge top similarly to how we have to bump the wings up much higher than we did five years ago.

 

[SoBeCuse]

That would be Frank once and Moyer once for the 3’s. He called time after Moyer didn’t rotate.

Pretty sure it happened a few minutes later as well before things got straightened out.

 

[rrlbees]

Pretty sure it happened a few minutes later as well before things got straightened out.

A few minutes later he got on frank but not in the yelling and screaming way. But it also wasn’t for a defensive lapse that gave up a 3. He tried to split a double tram driving to the basket and had his shot blocked which led to a fast break the other way which resulted in a fast break 3.

 

[kcsu]

Teams that live outside the arc exclusively are going to score some points from out there and are fairly likely to at least shoot a halfway decent percentage. I mean, BC drained 15 threes against Duke (not going to happen often) and they have two lights out shooters as well as a solid one in Bowman.

But, obviously three-point defense is a huge factor for every team and it can get better. One thing I'd really like to see is Frank moving shooters off a spot more effectively. He plays it OK and challenges the shot but the bottom line with kids today is they can shoot up to 25 feet (or more) and they can make them at an acceptable rate with a hand in their face. Graham and Heurter killed us by just standing way out and then launching. Really need to make them move their feet to get that look.

This is a great post as you know your stuff. All shooters have preferred spots and motions. Start with which side of the hoop. When i played i always liked as facing the basket the right side and especially the right corner. Being right handed the right corner should favor a lefty but i loved it why. Because at home the right side of our home hoop was much deeper/longer than the other and i became comfortable there. Some guys need motion before they shoot such as Battle. Others are more catch and shoot. Think Gmac. So to your point moving a shooter off the spot or anything that disrupts their flow is critical.

 

[moqui]

i noticed two adjustments. in the first half, bc made their first four, then jb called time and we held them to 1 for 8 while we built our double digit lead. then relaxed and let them hit 2 of three in the closing 90 seconds of the half.

the big adjustment came at halftime. while bc got 15 looks from three in the first half, they only got off 8 shots in the 2nd half. and after bowman hit one to open the half & cut the lead to 7, we only gave them 5 more looks from the arc until the final 90 seconds when they were down nearly 20. so after letting them take 15 in the first 20 minutes, for an 18 minute stretch of the 2nd half, they only got to take 5, making only 2. percentages don't show it, but that was some solid eph'n d

 

[SoBeCuse]

A few minutes later he got on frank but not in the yelling and screaming way. But it also wasn’t for a defensive lapse that gave up a 3. He tried to split a double tram driving to the basket and had his shot blocked which led to a fast break the other way which resulted in a fast break 3.

Ah, right. Good call.

 

[billsin01]

This is a great post as you know your stuff. All shooters have preferred spots and motions. Start with which side of the hoop. When i played i always liked as facing the basket the right side and especially the right corner. Being right handed the right corner should favor a lefty but i loved it why. Because at home the right side of our home hoop was much deeper/longer than the other and i became comfortable there. Some guys need motion before they shoot such as Battle. Others are more catch and shoot. Think Gmac. So to your point moving a shooter off the spot or anything that disrupts their flow is critical.

Exactly -- comfort is all that matters with most of these kids. They can all shoot deep. Can't let them stand and shoot. A kid like GMac that can light it up off a screen -- that's tough. But we needed to make Heurter and Graham prove they could hurt us off the dribble. Same with both kids from BC. It's not really a knock on Frank's defense (or Battle's for that matter), but a change in mindset we need to adopt. I would also suggest that we need Dolezaj on the floor more for defensive purposes in ACC play, b/c if we're daring guys to put the ball on the floor, we'll be in scramble mode defensively more often. He's sooooo much better there than Moyer.

 

[NateW]

Exactly -- comfort is all that matters with most of these kids. They can all shoot deep. Can't let them stand and shoot. A kid like GMac that can light it up off a screen -- that's tough. But we needed to make Heurter and Graham prove they could hurt us off the dribble. Same with both kids from BC. It's not really a knock on Frank's defense (or Battle's for that matter), but a change in mindset we need to adopt. I would also suggest that we need Dolezaj on the floor more for defensive purposes in ACC play, b/c if we're daring guys to put the ball on the floor, we'll be in scramble mode defensively more often. He's sooooo much better there than Moyer.

Watching Moyer scramble defensively is like watching me on ice skates.

 

[SU94]

i noticed two adjustments. in the first half, bc made their first four, then jb called time and we held them to 1 for 8 while we built our double digit lead. then relaxed and let them hit 2 of three in the closing 90 seconds of the half.

the big adjustment came at halftime. while bc got 15 looks from three in the first half, they only got off 8 shots in the 2nd half. and after bowman hit one to open the half & cut the lead to 7, we only gave them 5 more looks from the arc until the final 90 seconds when they were down nearly 20. so after letting them take 15 in the first 20 minutes, for an 18 minute stretch of the 2nd half, they only got to take 5, making only 2. percentages don't show it, but that was some solid eph'n d

Honestly, I thought JAB's adjustment on Wednesday night was promoting the offense to take the first decent shot they found. AKA shooting earlier in the shot clock. Let's play a few more possessions and let the talent difference play out, and coupling that with the zone, create a greater margin.

I think that too often, the in the previous month especially, the offense was bogged down hoping to find a great look/shot. It rarely came and then there would be 7 left on the shot clock and Battle or Frank would have to fend with emboldened defenders and an internal shot clock ticking in their heads. Not a great recipe for offensive success.

 

[Brooky03]

Like always, teams with a 6'8"+ playmaker, who can get the ball at the FT line and hurt you with the shot and the pass, will have the most success against the zone. Having a guy like this is paramount to consistently beat our zone. One dimensional teams should struggle, but even teams with a post scorer and multiple outside threats can be stopped often by the zone if they don't have a high post playmaker. The good news for us is there are only a handful of guys in the NCAA capable of ripping up the zone from the FT line; "handful" might be an overstatement, too.

Duke is an offensive juggernaut and Bagley is going to be a problem. Luke Maye will not be fun to play against this year either. Luckily, Duke has horrendous defense, especially at the guard spots. I'm less familiar with UNC. But if we're looking at this from the standpoint of competing against the top dogs in the conference, especially at conference tourney time, our defense should be in great shape if they bring the effort we've started to see the last couple games.