JB's Voided Wins

[Zelda Zonk]

Who won the 2013 NCAA title?

Not sure what you're trying to prove.

1) I had no idea without googling. I don't remember stuff like that.
2) Everyone who saw the game had that experience. That doesn't go away. In the record books, i guess no one won it. That doesn't matter to me. It's an asterisk, a stat, a line on a piece of paper, which is what i said originally.
3) Yes, it's not a clean, pretty thing to have in the record books. But, there are lots of asterisks in record books, because **** happens. What's a better solution?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not sure what you're trying to prove.

1) I had no idea without googling. I don't remember stuff like that.
2) Everyone who saw the game had that experience. That doesn't go away. In the record books, i guess no one won it. That doesn't matter to me. It's an asterisk, a stat, a line on a piece of paper, which is what i said originally.
3) Yes, it's not a clean, pretty thing to have in the record books. But, there are lots of asterisks in record books, because **** happens. What's a better solution?

Exactly. You remembered it and it happened. Zero reason to take it off a piece a paper.

I’m a big believer that enforcing any moral rules are stupid because they are always selectively enforced and the people that try to do good cut themselves off at the knees. Enforcement isn’t to deter folks. It is to decrease competition and it almost always causes people to lose faith in its institution.

Look no further than baseball and its writers turning the HOF into a joke because they won’t allow some(not the ones they like) guys who took roids from 90-2005 into the HOF.

 

[kcsu]

Our recruits could care less about JB or his wins. It would be nice for him and SU but it doesn't really matter when it comes to the teams future results.

 

[two3zone]

Exactly. You remembered it and it happened. Zero reason to take it off a piece a paper.

I’m a big believer that enforcing any moral rules are stupid because they are always selectively enforced and the people that try to do good cut themselves off at the knees. Enforcement isn’t to deter folks. It is to decrease competition and it almost always causes people to lose faith in its institution.

Look no further than baseball and its writers turning the HOF into a joke because they won’t allow some(not the ones they like) guys who took roids from 90-2005 into the HOF.

The HOF vote was always so awful and they've managed to make it a hundred times worse. They've turned the Hall into a joke.

I'm also sick of guys getting in after they're dead, is sickening.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The HOF vote was always so awful and they've managed to make it a hundred times worse. They've turned the Hall into a joke.

I'm also sick of guys getting in after they're dead, is sickening.

Or Harold Baines

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Exactly. You remembered it and it happened. Zero reason to take it off a piece a paper.

I’m a big believer that enforcing any moral rules are stupid because they are always selectively enforced and the people that try to do good cut themselves off at the knees. Enforcement isn’t to deter folks. It is to decrease competition and it almost always causes people to lose faith in its institution.

Look no further than baseball and its writers turning the HOF into a joke because they won’t allow some(not the ones they like) guys who took roids from 90-2005 into the HOF.

No, I said I didn’t remember it. It’s right there! But, above, yeah, I said the experience people had is theirs to keep and a Men In Black device to erase memories doesn’t exist. [Did you miss/ignore/or not get that reference?]

I disagree with almost all of the rest….

Enforcement is certainly related to deterrence. Enforcement of anything is related to deterrence.

If enforcing “moral rules” is stupid, then it seems you are saying morality itself is an invalid concept and I wonder how you would parent children. Not sure that any of this is actually a ‘morals’ issue, but that’s another conversation.

Not everything is the same as everything else. Baseball is its own thing with its own nuances. I don’t, though, understand a position that then encourages cheating by saying it’s wrong or invalid to punish only those who got caught. If you have rules of any kind—and sports are based on them—then you have to enforce the ones you discover. The ones you don’t know about in the moment are lost, just like you can’t go back to review a basketball game and penalize the travels and goaltender and hacks the officials missed.

Not sure, either, that the HOF is “a joke.” I think this, as with the disputed JB wins totals, are matters that different people hold at different levels of importance. The HOF for me is a ceremonial, librarial matter. It is not gospel or law or immutable truth. It’s a piece of jewelry. While it’s nice for someone to work toward it and achieve induction, whether they do or not is pretty insignificant to me, personally. I’d rather have known roids players out of it because the HOF should be, IMO, a symbol, representing people who did the right things the right way. It’s for kids—more than anything. It’s a handshake line after a game. That it represents something doesn’t mean that it IS something. There’s a difference, and I would always prefer to err on the side of propriety, honor, fairness, and not commercial interests, notoriety, and celebrity. Cheaters cheat the game and the fans. Ignoring that just because they all couldn’t be caught is what I would call “stupid.”

 

[two3zone]

Or Harold Baines

The guy who didnt vote for Rickey Henderson, huh? He shouldn't be allowed at a little league field.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No, I said I didn’t remember it. It’s right there! But, above, yeah, I said the experience people had is theirs to keep and a Men In Black device to erase memories doesn’t exist. [Did you miss/ignore/or not get that reference?]

I disagree with almost all of the rest….

Enforcement is certainly related to deterrence. Enforcement of anything is related to deterrence.

If enforcing “moral rules” is stupid, then it seems you are saying morality itself is an invalid concept and I wonder how you would parent children. Not sure that any of this is actually a ‘morals’ issue, but that’s another conversation.

Not everything is the same as everything else. Baseball is its own thing with its own nuances. I don’t, though, understand a position that then encourages cheating by saying it’s wrong or invalid to punish only those who got caught. If you have rules of any kind—and sports are based on them—then you have to enforce the ones you discover. The ones you don’t know about in the moment are lost, just like you can’t go back to review a basketball game and penalize the travels and goaltender and hacks the officials missed.

Not sure, either, that the HOF is “a joke.” I think this, as with the disputed JB wins totals, are matters that different people hold at different levels of importance. The HOF for me is a ceremonial, librarial matter. It is not gospel or law or immutable truth. It’s a piece of jewelry. While it’s nice for someone to work toward it and achieve induction, whether they do or not is pretty insignificant to me, personally. I’d rather have known roids players out of it because the HOF should be, IMO, a symbol, representing people who did the right things the right way. It’s for kids—more than anything. It’s a handshake line after a game. That it represents something doesn’t mean that it IS something. There’s a difference, and I would always prefer to err on the side of propriety, honor, fairness, and not commercial interests, notoriety, and celebrity. Cheaters cheat the game and the fans. Ignoring that just because they all couldn’t be caught is what I would call “stupid.”

You’re making a lot of assumptions about me. It’s sports. It happened on the field. It is dumb to pretend otherwise. Suspensions are for punishment.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

You’re making a lot of assumptions about me. It’s sports. It happened on the field. It is dumb to pretend otherwise. Suspensions are for punishment.

I didn’t make any assumptions about you. I asked one question/wondered how you would react in a separate scenario based on your assertions here—I drew no conclusions. Just wanted to know how you could rationalize your perspectives in another situation.

Re: penalties and now you’re using the word suspensions—any quick google search shows that clearly penalties and punishments of all types are designed to and/or incidentally have a deterrent effect. It’s silly to suggest otherwise. Whether we’re talking about a parent giving a kid a ‘timeout,’ a cop giving a driver a speeding ticket, or a judge sentencing a criminal—‘half’ of the purpose is to deter that person from doing it again, others from doing it once, and the other half is to protect the rest of us. Actual ‘punishment’ is the lessor feature. Punishment is vindictive, not constructive.

Not sure what you mean about something happening on the field. It’s sports. Okay…. What? You introduced the term morality. Which is different from game-related rules I was discussing. We have a weird communications disconnect, with your shifting lexicon….

 

[Consigliere]

Not sure what you're trying to prove.

1) I had no idea without googling. I don't remember stuff like that.
2) Everyone who saw the game had that experience. That doesn't go away. In the record books, i guess no one won it. That doesn't matter to me. It's an asterisk, a stat, a line on a piece of paper, which is what i said originally.
3) Yes, it's not a clean, pretty thing to have in the record books. But, there are lots of asterisks in record books, because **** happens. What's a better solution?

And the NCAA did not refund the cost of my tickets!

 

[Marsh01]

The HOF vote was always so awful and they've managed to make it a hundred times worse. They've turned the Hall into a joke.

I'm also sick of guys getting in after they're dead, is sickening.

I still dont know how Dale Murphy isnt in the hall. Guy won 2 mvp awards