Jockeys - Among Greatest Athletes?

[EastCoast2]

Discuss

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Along with divers and gymnasts

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[moqui]

what is your base of knowledge here, EastCoast? When we discuss other sports, most of us have played basketball, baseball, football, etc. at least in high school, so most of us know something about what it takes.

Have you ever ridden a horse? At a gallop? Over what distance?

 

[br801]

EastCoast2, the "jockeys aren't athletes, they're only along for the ride" argument is pretty ridiculous if you've ever met a jockey or witnessed a horse race (particularly the start of a race) up close.

Physically, the typical jockey resembles a 100-115 pound gymnast, boxer or wrestler. If you can't comprehend that great strength and athleticism is required to simply control and maneuver a 900-1300 pound racehorse travelling roughly 35-45 MPH around an essentially unbanked racetrack, I don't know what to tell you. Now imagine that there are 10 to 15 other jockeys attempting to do the same thing at the same time (and the inherent danger involved) and get to the finish line first, and tell me these people need not be tremendous athletes.

 

[br801]

what is your base of knowledge here, EastCoast? When we discuss other sports, most of us have played basketball, baseball, football, etc. at least in high school, so most of us know something about what it takes.

Have you ever ridden a horse? At a gallop? Over what distance?

Does a pony ride at the fair when you're 4 count?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

EastCoast2, the "jockeys aren't athletes, they're only along for the ride" argument is pretty ridiculous if you've ever met a jockey or witnessed a horse race (particularly the start of a race) up close.

Physically, the typical jockey resembles a 100-115 pound gymnast, boxer or wrestler. If you can't comprehend that great strength and athleticism is required to simply control and maneuver a 900-1300 pound racehorse travelling roughly 35-45 MPH around an essentially unbanked racetrack, I don't know what to tell you. Now imagine that there are 10 to 15 other jockeys attempting to do the same thing at the same time (and the inherent danger involved) and get to the finish line first, and tell me these people need not be tremendous athletes.

Then do it 8-10 times a day.

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[br801]

Then do it 8-10 times a day.

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With your livelihood depending on how well you do it. And be out at the track every morning to exercise horses and ride them in workouts. And do all this while maintaining your body weight at what is likely an unnaturally low level.

 

[EastCoast2]

I'm not saying riding a horse does not take exceptional skill - I get that. You are implying that I think any dumb idiot can straddle a horse and win the Preakness.

What I am saying is that jockeys are not near the elite athletes as world class basketball players, football players, soccer players, or boxers. They have world class "skill" at riding a horse, that's it. I don't consider them great athletes

 

[EastCoast2]

This brings the debate, "what constitutes a great athlete?" Is a 500 lb slob, world class dart thrower or bowler a great athlete, as some consider darts to be a sport? It is on ESPN after all.

I think if you take many factors - hand-eye coordination, strength, speed, agility, quickness, reaction time, size... these are what we consider athletic traits. Someone who never played a sport in their life, they're 6'3 220 and turn around to dunk a basketball, you turn to your friend and say, "he's athletic"... I consider the best athletes in this regard... pure athletecism.

Running a 4.4 40 yd dash
Running a marathon in a great time
Having a 34 inch vertical
Being able to bench 300 lbs
Being able to make solid contact with a 94 mph two-seam fastball, then leg out a double
Sprinting up and down a soccer field for 90+ minutes

I'm much more impressed with a 400 meter time of less than 50 seconds than I am a 100 lb guy holding onto a horse for 80 seconds

 

[br801]

I'm much more impressed with a 400 meter time of less than 50 seconds than I am a 100 lb guy holding onto a horse for 80 seconds

Wow. If that's really your takeaway from this discussion then we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[moqui]

I'm much more impressed with a 400 meter time of less than 50 seconds than I am a 100 lb guy holding onto a horse for 80 seconds

I will take it by your silence on my direct questions, plus this response, that in fact you have never ridden a horse.

 

[EastCoast2]

I will take it by your silence on my direct questions, plus this response, that in fact you have never ridden a horse.

I've never ridden a horse past age 10.

Have you ever:
Gotten a base hit off a pitcher throwing 90+ mph?
Played high school/pickup basketball with D1 players?
Lined up across a top 100 football recruit trying to tackle you?
Ran a 400 m race?

I have, and I'm pretty sure they're all harder than riding a horse

 

[EastCoast2]

And I think you guys are confusing me saying "they're not the world's greatest athletes" with "anyone can straddle a horse and win the Preakness"

It's a skill, not an amazing feat of athletcism

 

[br801]

And I think you guys are confusing me saying "they're not the world's greatest athletes" with "anyone can straddle a horse and win the Preakness"

It's a skill, not an amazing feat of athletcism

I'm not an experienced rider myself, but the experienced recreational riders I know personally would all tell you without hesitation that simply exercising a thoroughbred racehorse at 90% of racing speed with no other horses around requires a high level of athleticism and not simply "skill." Most of them would decline to try it if given the chance.

 

[moqui]

I've never ridden a horse past age 10.

Have you ever:
Gotten a base hit off a pitcher throwing 90+ mph?
Played high school/pickup basketball with D1 players?
Lined up across a top 100 football recruit trying to tackle you?
Ran a 400 m race?

I have, and I'm pretty sure they're all harder than riding a horse

1. yes
2. yes, and much more recently than high school
3. no
4. no

If you have never ridden a horse at full gallop, then your "pretty sure" attitude can only be said to be derived from ignorance.

riding a horse at full gallop is much, much harder than you know. controlling that animal and steering it through traffic at very close quarters is even harder.

I have never ridden a horse in a race, and I wouldn't even attempt it.

 

[EastCoast2]

I have never ridden a horse in a race, and I wouldn't even attempt it.

Ditto

 

[moqui]

Ditto

but the difference is that I have ridden horses at full gallop . . . you haven't even done that much. you haven't the slightest idea what it takes. your opinion vis a vis horsemanship is the definition of ignorance.

that is not to say that you are an ignoramus, please don't take it that way. We are all ignorant of many things (most things, in fact)

 

[br801]

but the difference is that I have ridden horses at full gallop . . . you haven't even done that much. you haven't the slightest idea what it takes. your opinion vis a vis horsemanship is the definition of ignorance.

that is not to say that you are an ignoramus, please don't take it that way. We are all ignorant of many things (most things, in fact)

That is one damn good post. As a rule, I try not to comment on things I know nothing about and it usually works out okay.

EastCoast asked for this thread and then basically ignored or slammed everything that others posted in good faith. My original point was that thoroughbred jockeys are exceptional athletes. I'll stand by that.

It's all Orangeyes' fault for posting that photo of Secretariat.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

How about this guy ... athlete or non-athlete?

 

[EastCoast2]

I think we can agree to disagree on what defines a great athlete :noidea:

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I've never ridden a horse past age 10.

Have you ever:
Gotten a base hit off a pitcher throwing 90+ mph?
Played high school/pickup basketball with D1 players?
Lined up across a top 100 football recruit trying to tackle you?
Ran a 400 m race?

I have, and I'm pretty sure they're all harder than riding a horse

You realize that they don't sit, right.They are standing in stirrups, croucched over, hanging on and moving inrythm with the horse, sometime with only one hand holding the rains, while the other uses the crop on the horse.

BTW, you dont have to be a great athlete to hit a baseball (Boog Powell and Gates Brown come to mind.) . You have to have great hand eye coordination. I would put Greg Louganis above almost all other athletes. The guy was absolutely amazing to watch. Both an athlete and an artist.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

You realize that they don't sit, right.They are standing in stirrups, croucched over, hanging on and moving inrythm with the horse, sometime with only one hand holding the rains, while the other uses the crop on the horse.

BTW, you dont have to be a great athlete to hit a baseball (Boog Powell and Gates Brown come to mind.) . You have to have great hand eye coordination. I would put Greg Louganis above almost all other athletes. The guy was absolutely amazing to watch. Both an athlete and an artist.

Boog Powell was a pretty good defensive first basemen. However, since he played with such great infielders who won a bunch of Golden Gloves, he never got credit for his own skills.

 

[SUfaninAZ]

Motocross/Supercross riders are in my opinion.

Along with divers and gymnasts

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[RoysRunts]

Discuss

Like the comment Howard Cosell said about Race Car Drivers