Just Recovering from FSU game - Recruiting Commentary

[chakka3421]

After watching the FSU game and becoming seriously ill from watching it, it dawned on me during my recovery process that perhaps I had been wrong all along regarding my thoughts on Marrone/Mac recruiting style. As you may have surmised if you have seen my previous posts, I have been a big supporter of Coach Marrone and am still dismayed that he left.

I was really sold on the Marrone method as he followed what previous successful coaches have done like Coach Mac and went after players in the NY/NE first and also in developing the so called rough "diamonds" into football players. But the world has changed since the days of Coach Mac with the advent of technology and the impact it has had on the recruiting evaluation process. Just look to hudl where a high school player can get stats and videos posted for evaluation purposes - also the star system now in place that has had an impact on recruiting (at least with fans).

I have to give credit now to Coach Shaffer in the hiring of Coach McDonald and his ability to seemingly recruit more kids to come here from the football factory states especially Florida. I was at first dismayed at the lack of recruits from NY but that may just end up being a "mediocre" strategy given today's age that will never get us "back in the game" at a high level.

If we are ever going to compete on a consistent basis with the southern school likes of Florida St, Miami, GT, VT and Clemson, we need a new strategy and I like what I see so far. Time will tell but to me what worked in the old BE conference will simply not work in the ACC to get to the next level.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't know that there was anything wrong with Marrone's approach exactly. I think he just struggled for whatever reason to land top end talent, otherwise the classes have put the team in position to be competitive for the most part.

That being said, I do think Cool Kid's skills will yield a bigger dividend.

 

[Ithacaorange]

I don't know that there was anything wrong with Marrone's approach exactly. I think he just struggled for whatever reason to land top end talent, otherwise the classes have put the team in position to be competitive for the most part.

That being said, I do think Cool Kid's skills will yield a bigger dividend.

lets hope he makes it thru his first full central NY winter

 

[timkay99]

I don't know that there was anything wrong with Marrone's approach exactly. I think he just struggled for whatever reason to land top end talent, otherwise the classes have put the team in position to be competitive for the most part.

That being said, I do think Cool Kid's skills will yield a bigger dividend.

Marrone was getting to that point of beating out schools for top end talent, but he put a lot of stock into New York and think that ended up hurting the pitch in other areas.

I mean, the last class would have had Zach Allen (Big 12), Gus Edwards (ACC), LaRay Smith (small B10) and maybe Malik Brown (SEC).

With that said, I anticipate this staff, led by McDonald, to secure some high level impact talent and continue the upward trend Marrone had going. And judging by this class, they are beginning to do just that.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

Getting talent from the football factory states is key. I would wager that a 3 star from Florida is way better than a 4 star from NY/NE. Why? Because of reps. Players in FL, GA, TX, etc. play all year. They have organized spring ball. They play 7 on 7. Their football IQ is higher and they have more passion for the game. They've also faced better competition in high school. Look at Baylor. I think 2014 might be their first top 25 recruiting class. Their previous classes were primairly 2 and 3 star kids, but they can win with those kids (those kids plus Art Briles). Two and 3 star TX kids are much easier to coach up than 2 and 3 star kids from the northeast.

 

[sufandu]

I think you need a combination. Marrone seemed to be moving toward that, as he expanded recruiting territory every year. He started off very close to home his first couple of years but was beginning to emphasize the geographically distant football factory states by the time he left (ZA for example).

Where Marrone excelled was identifying overlooked talent along the line. Hopefully we haven't lost this just as we seem to be upgrading our skill positions.

 

[money3189]

I think you need a combination. Marrone seemed to be moving toward that, as he expanded recruiting territory every year. He started off very close to home his first couple of years but was beginning to emphasize the geographically distant football factory states by the time he left (ZA for example).

Where Marrone excelled was identifying overlooked talent along the line. Hopefully we haven't lost this just as we seem to be upgrading our skill positions.

jay bromley

 

[Crusty]

Marrone's recruiting was slowly improving year by year but was, by no means, threatening to break out. The big complaint was always the failure to get skill players. That did not seem to change. (ZA is stuck behind two other freshman at TCU so I am not sure he was any big deal.)

Of course, we will never know how well he would have done in the ACC.

It just makes sense to recruit where the talent pool is best. As we get better, more NYS kids may want to play at the dome. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how we get it done as long as we do on a sustainable basis.

 

[tbonezone]

yes and the tallahassee asskicking we took must do wonders for florida recruitment sell.

 

[Crusty]

yes and the tallahassee asskicking we took must do wonders for florida recruitment sell.

I am not so sure that is at all relevant unless a recruit has an offer from FSU. The attraction is early playing time. Besides we are not the only team to get whipped by FSU.

 

[TheCusian]

I am not so sure that is at all relevant unless a recruit has an offer from FSU. The attraction is early playing time. Besides we are not the only team to get whipped by FSU.

Plus - you know high school coaches of current players are pointing out who's coming "home" when we play there - despite the results.

 

[SoBristol]

By the time the class comes together (a lot of work still to be done), there may be a McDonald/Southern State flavor. Or some Jucos in the mold of Kirkland & Kelly.

But right now, that isn't the case. A little more from mid-West, some Pennslyvania, a bit of this & that.

And that is the right way to go -- build some connections within the classic 6 hour drive radius, and touch Florida/Georgia for a few late-bloomers missed by the local powers.

 

[Lou_C]

Getting talent from the football factory states is key. I would wager that a 3 star from Florida is way better than a 4 star from NY/NE. Why? Because of reps. Players in FL, GA, TX, etc. play all year. They have organized spring ball. They play 7 on 7. Their football IQ is higher and they have more passion for the game. They've also faced better competition in high school. Look at Baylor. I think 2014 might be their first top 25 recruiting class. Their previous classes were primairly 2 and 3 star kids, but they can win with those kids (those kids plus Art Briles). Two and 3 star TX kids are much easier to coach up than 2 and 3 star kids from the northeast.

I think when you are talking sheer number of great athletes, there's also more of a chance a great player has been down the bench or splitting time, leading to a 3 star rating based on just not enough of a track record.

Our running back Devonta Freeman was a two star RB when Jimbo offered him before his senior year. He had been backing up an SEC running back who ended up going to Kentucky. He did have a great senior year and blew up to four stars, but some of that star inflation was certainly due to FSU's offer, that's just the way those things work. Had FSU not found and offered him, maybe he's a 3 star based on limited time.

Now if Freeman went to school in say, New Hampshire, then that same kid that was a 2-star as a junior would have been putting up state record level numbers from freshman year on, and would have been a 4-star from the jump probably and everyone is after him.

Just saying that due to the depth of athletes, you can find kids in FL/GA/TX etc that are 4 or high 3-star talent, that are just squeezed out or overshadowed by competition. In less competitive areas, those kids are going to shine, and the chance of finding a diamond in the rough is less. That's why having great connections in those areas that can turn you on to kids like that is super important.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

yes and the tallahassee asskicking we took must do wonders for florida recruitment sell.

I bet it helps recruiting that we're playing teams like Clemson and FSU. OK, so we get our ass kicked but we also have the rest of our recent improvement discussed on air to a national audience on major networks. There's no substitute for that good press.

 

[SWC75]

Read what Coach said in "The Scott Shafer Show". He talks about recruiting in depth, including a lot the issues brought up here.

 

[PhatOrange]

This is where they're from:

Naesean Howard > Camillus, NY (West Genny)

Wayne Williams > Brooklyn, NY (Lincoln)

Rodney Williams > Cherry Hill, NJ (Cherry Hill)

Zaire Franklin > Philadelphia, PA (LaSalle)

KJ Williams > Bethlehem, PA (Liberty)

Jamal Custis > Philadelphia, PA (Neumann Goretti)

Erv Phillips > West Haven, CT

Colton Moskal > Lake Zurich, IL (Lake Zurich)

Lamar Dawson > Chicago, IL (St Rita)

Aaron Roberts > Chicago, IL (De La Salle)

Parris Bennett> Detroit, MI (Jesuit)

Alin Edouard > Hialeah, FL (Hialeah)

Cory Cooper > Raleigh, NC (Millbrook)


At this point in time we're slated to get official visits (kids) from the following states:

Illinois, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina

 

[xc84]

I think when you are talking sheer number of great athletes, there's also more of a chance a great player has been down the bench or splitting time, leading to a 3 star rating based on just not enough of a track record.

Our running back Devonta Freeman was a two star RB when Jimbo offered him before his senior year. He had been backing up an SEC running back who ended up going to Kentucky. He did have a great senior year and blew up to four stars, but some of that star inflation was certainly due to FSU's offer, that's just the way those things work. Had FSU not found and offered him, maybe he's a 3 star based on limited time.

Now if Freeman went to school in say, New Hampshire, then that same kid that was a 2-star as a junior would have been putting up state record level numbers from freshman year on, and would have been a 4-star from the jump probably and everyone is after him.

Just saying that due to the depth of athletes, you can find kids in FL/GA/TX etc that are 4 or high 3-star talent, that are just squeezed out or overshadowed by competition. In less competitive areas, those kids are going to shine, and the chance of finding a diamond in the rough is less. That's why having great connections in those areas that can turn you on to kids like that is super important.

I agree with much of what you said but there is a counter to some of it. A kid in e.g. NH could be great but will automatically be suspect due to the level of competition. My take is that instead of being inflated from a rating perspective, he will be suspect because he's from NH. His rating will take a hit simply due to location.

 

[SWC75]

Doug Marrone used to say that because fewer games are played by Northeastern teams, there are a lot of prospects who haven't peaked yet:they might play two dozen game sin their high school career rather than four dozen. The difference between their current evaluation and their "upside" was greater than it might be in a place like Florida. So if you want "under the radar" guys, that's the place to get them.