SWC75
Bored Historian
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 33,707
- Like
- 64,911
We are 8-4 in the conference right now- a good record. But we’ve lost those four games by 17, 22, 18 and 15 points. We have upcoming games against Louisville, Duke, North Carolina and Virginia, teams that could beat us by that much or worse. Jim Boeheim in his press conference, said that margin of defeat is “irrelevant”. I’m sure the NCAA committee is instructed to ignore margin of victory or defeat but they are human. It’s hard to ignore the fact that when we get beat, we get pounded.
Somebody said that we must have a record number of blow-out losses in recent years. I decided to look at that: how many have we had and how unusual is that in our history? I’ve already done a post on 20 point losses, of which one of our ACC losses qualified. I thought about changing the standard to 10 point losses and just counting them to see how many we’ve had each year and in each era. Then I came up with an idea I liked better: why not just total up the margins of defeat in each loss and see how much we lost by each year? Then I could average that number. Here’s what I got:
1976-77 we lost 4 games by a total of 45 points, an average of 11.25 points per loss
1977-78 we lost 6 games by a total of 36 points, an average of 6.0 points per loss
1978-79 we lost 4 games by a total of 26 points, an average of 6.5 points per loss
1979-80 we lost 4 games by a total of 20 points, an average of 5.0 points per loss
1980-81 we lost 12 games by a total of 90 points, an average of 7.5 points per loss
1981-82 we lost 13 games by a total of 108 points, an average of 8.3 points per loss
1982-83 we lost 10 games by a total of 91 points, an average of 9.1 points per loss
1983-84 we lost 9 games by a total of 94 points, an average of 10.4 points per loss
1984-85 we lost 9 games by a total of 77 points, an average of 8.6 points per loss
1985-86 we lost 6 games by a total of 37 points, an average of 6.2 points per loss
1986-87 we lost 7 games by a total of 33 points, an average of 4.7 points per loss
1987-88 we lost 9 games by a total of 28 points, an average of 3.1 points per loss
1988-89 we lost 8 games by a total of 37 points, an average of 4.6 points per loss
1989-90 we lost 7 games by a total of 46 points, an average of 6.6 points per loss
1990-91 we lost 6 games by a total of 45 points, an average of 7.5 points per loss
1991-92 we lost 10 games by a total of 84 points, an average of 8.4 points per loss
1992-93 we lost 9 games by a total of 101 points, an average of 11.25 points per loss
1993-94 we lost 7 games by a total of 60 points, an average of 8.6 points per loss
1994-95 we lost 10 games by a total of 52 points, an average of 5.2 points per loss
1995-96 we lost 9 games by a total of 98 points, an average of 10.9 points per loss
1996-97 we lost 13 games by a total of 155 points, an average of 11.9 points per loss
1997-98 we lost 9 games by a total of 121 points, an average of 13.4 points per loss
1998-99 we lost 12 games by a total of 146 points, an average of 12.2 points per loss
1999-00 we lost 6 games by a total of 52 points, an average of 8.7 points per loss
2000-01 we lost 9 games by a total of 104 points, an average of 11.6 points per loss
2001-02 we lost 13 games by a total of 132 points, an average of 10.2 points per loss
2002-03 we lost 5 games by a total of 52 points, an average of 10.4 points per loss
2003-04 we lost 8 games by a total of 97 points, an average of 12.1 points per loss
2004-05 we lost 7 games by a total of 59 points, an average of 8.4 points per loss
2005-06 we lost 12 games by a total of 165 points, an average of 13.75 points per loss
2006-07 we lost 11 games by a total of 61 points, an average of 5.5 points per loss
2007-08 we lost 14 games by a total of 122 points, an average of 8.7 points per loss
2008-09 we lost 10 games by a total of 105 points, an average of 10.5 points per loss
2009-10 we lost 5 games by a total of 37 points, an average of 7.4 points per loss
2010-11 we lost 8 games by a total of 68 points, an average of 8.5 points per loss
2011-12 we lost 3 games by a total of 19 points, an average of 6.3 points per loss
2012-13 we lost 10 games by a total of 89 points, an average of 8.9 points per loss
2013-14 we lost 6 games by a total of 38 points, an average of 6.3 points per loss
2014-15 we lost 13 games by a total of 124 points, an average of 9.5 points per loss
2015-16 we lost 14 games by a total of 115 points, an average of 8.2 points per loss
2016-17 we lost 15 games by a total of 172 points, an average of 11.5 points per loss
2017-18 we lost 14 games by a total of 126 points, an average of 9.0 points per loss
2018-19 we’ve lost 8 games by a total of 109 points, an average of 13.6 points per loss
It’s a pretty good map of when we’ve been really good and when we haven’t, 9we’ve never gotten really bad). We would seem to be on our way to our 6th double-figure loss season in 7 years. That would be a third of the total of 18 such seasons in JB’s 43 year tenure. We had 3 in a row from 1980-83 and 4 in a row from 2005-2009.
We’ve already lost our games by 100+ points for the fifth year in a row. That’s also a third of the 100 point seasons we’ve had in Jim’s career. We have had periods nearly as bad: from 1996-2002 we lost by 100 points 5 times in 6 years.
This year’s team is losing by the second highest average of the Boeheim era: 2005-06 was worse. That was the year we had to win the big eats to get in and did, thanks to GMAC. But it’s only the second team of this decade that’s lost by an average of double figures. We actually had a worse stretch from 1992-2009, (if that can be considered an era), when we averaged double figures 11 times in 17 seasons.
The glory eras were the Louie and Bouie Era, (1976-80), when we lost 18 games by a total of 127 points (7.1), the Showtime Era, when we were the collegiate answer to the Lakers, (1985-91), and lost 43 games by a total of 226 points, (5.3) and the Zone Only era, (2009-2014), when we lost 32 games by a total of 251 points, (7.8). Those are the eras that have kind of spoiled us because we think that should be the norm. In fact they cover just 15 of JB’s 43 years here.
My interpretation of what has happened in this decade is that we moved up to the Top Ten level of play because Jim decided to play 100% zone and got really good at it. Then he came back from the Olympics with the idea that we should be a pick and roll half-court team rather than hit the open man, fast breaking team and our games got lower scoring and uglier. We also stopped recruiting pure point guards and offensive centers. We joined the ACC, which, top to bottom, is the toughest league ever. The Old Big East was as good at the top and in the middle but it also had bad teams you knew you could beat at the bottom: this conference doesn’t. Finally, the NCAA has stressed the non-conference games more than ever before and SU has beefed up that part of the schedule, also trying to maintain relationships with old Big East rivals. That means more double-figure loss seasons and more double-figure loss games, although the slower pace of play and the lower scoring games that result pulls us in the other direction as far as the game averages.
Somebody said that we must have a record number of blow-out losses in recent years. I decided to look at that: how many have we had and how unusual is that in our history? I’ve already done a post on 20 point losses, of which one of our ACC losses qualified. I thought about changing the standard to 10 point losses and just counting them to see how many we’ve had each year and in each era. Then I came up with an idea I liked better: why not just total up the margins of defeat in each loss and see how much we lost by each year? Then I could average that number. Here’s what I got:
1976-77 we lost 4 games by a total of 45 points, an average of 11.25 points per loss
1977-78 we lost 6 games by a total of 36 points, an average of 6.0 points per loss
1978-79 we lost 4 games by a total of 26 points, an average of 6.5 points per loss
1979-80 we lost 4 games by a total of 20 points, an average of 5.0 points per loss
1980-81 we lost 12 games by a total of 90 points, an average of 7.5 points per loss
1981-82 we lost 13 games by a total of 108 points, an average of 8.3 points per loss
1982-83 we lost 10 games by a total of 91 points, an average of 9.1 points per loss
1983-84 we lost 9 games by a total of 94 points, an average of 10.4 points per loss
1984-85 we lost 9 games by a total of 77 points, an average of 8.6 points per loss
1985-86 we lost 6 games by a total of 37 points, an average of 6.2 points per loss
1986-87 we lost 7 games by a total of 33 points, an average of 4.7 points per loss
1987-88 we lost 9 games by a total of 28 points, an average of 3.1 points per loss
1988-89 we lost 8 games by a total of 37 points, an average of 4.6 points per loss
1989-90 we lost 7 games by a total of 46 points, an average of 6.6 points per loss
1990-91 we lost 6 games by a total of 45 points, an average of 7.5 points per loss
1991-92 we lost 10 games by a total of 84 points, an average of 8.4 points per loss
1992-93 we lost 9 games by a total of 101 points, an average of 11.25 points per loss
1993-94 we lost 7 games by a total of 60 points, an average of 8.6 points per loss
1994-95 we lost 10 games by a total of 52 points, an average of 5.2 points per loss
1995-96 we lost 9 games by a total of 98 points, an average of 10.9 points per loss
1996-97 we lost 13 games by a total of 155 points, an average of 11.9 points per loss
1997-98 we lost 9 games by a total of 121 points, an average of 13.4 points per loss
1998-99 we lost 12 games by a total of 146 points, an average of 12.2 points per loss
1999-00 we lost 6 games by a total of 52 points, an average of 8.7 points per loss
2000-01 we lost 9 games by a total of 104 points, an average of 11.6 points per loss
2001-02 we lost 13 games by a total of 132 points, an average of 10.2 points per loss
2002-03 we lost 5 games by a total of 52 points, an average of 10.4 points per loss
2003-04 we lost 8 games by a total of 97 points, an average of 12.1 points per loss
2004-05 we lost 7 games by a total of 59 points, an average of 8.4 points per loss
2005-06 we lost 12 games by a total of 165 points, an average of 13.75 points per loss
2006-07 we lost 11 games by a total of 61 points, an average of 5.5 points per loss
2007-08 we lost 14 games by a total of 122 points, an average of 8.7 points per loss
2008-09 we lost 10 games by a total of 105 points, an average of 10.5 points per loss
2009-10 we lost 5 games by a total of 37 points, an average of 7.4 points per loss
2010-11 we lost 8 games by a total of 68 points, an average of 8.5 points per loss
2011-12 we lost 3 games by a total of 19 points, an average of 6.3 points per loss
2012-13 we lost 10 games by a total of 89 points, an average of 8.9 points per loss
2013-14 we lost 6 games by a total of 38 points, an average of 6.3 points per loss
2014-15 we lost 13 games by a total of 124 points, an average of 9.5 points per loss
2015-16 we lost 14 games by a total of 115 points, an average of 8.2 points per loss
2016-17 we lost 15 games by a total of 172 points, an average of 11.5 points per loss
2017-18 we lost 14 games by a total of 126 points, an average of 9.0 points per loss
2018-19 we’ve lost 8 games by a total of 109 points, an average of 13.6 points per loss
It’s a pretty good map of when we’ve been really good and when we haven’t, 9we’ve never gotten really bad). We would seem to be on our way to our 6th double-figure loss season in 7 years. That would be a third of the total of 18 such seasons in JB’s 43 year tenure. We had 3 in a row from 1980-83 and 4 in a row from 2005-2009.
We’ve already lost our games by 100+ points for the fifth year in a row. That’s also a third of the 100 point seasons we’ve had in Jim’s career. We have had periods nearly as bad: from 1996-2002 we lost by 100 points 5 times in 6 years.
This year’s team is losing by the second highest average of the Boeheim era: 2005-06 was worse. That was the year we had to win the big eats to get in and did, thanks to GMAC. But it’s only the second team of this decade that’s lost by an average of double figures. We actually had a worse stretch from 1992-2009, (if that can be considered an era), when we averaged double figures 11 times in 17 seasons.
The glory eras were the Louie and Bouie Era, (1976-80), when we lost 18 games by a total of 127 points (7.1), the Showtime Era, when we were the collegiate answer to the Lakers, (1985-91), and lost 43 games by a total of 226 points, (5.3) and the Zone Only era, (2009-2014), when we lost 32 games by a total of 251 points, (7.8). Those are the eras that have kind of spoiled us because we think that should be the norm. In fact they cover just 15 of JB’s 43 years here.
My interpretation of what has happened in this decade is that we moved up to the Top Ten level of play because Jim decided to play 100% zone and got really good at it. Then he came back from the Olympics with the idea that we should be a pick and roll half-court team rather than hit the open man, fast breaking team and our games got lower scoring and uglier. We also stopped recruiting pure point guards and offensive centers. We joined the ACC, which, top to bottom, is the toughest league ever. The Old Big East was as good at the top and in the middle but it also had bad teams you knew you could beat at the bottom: this conference doesn’t. Finally, the NCAA has stressed the non-conference games more than ever before and SU has beefed up that part of the schedule, also trying to maintain relationships with old Big East rivals. That means more double-figure loss seasons and more double-figure loss games, although the slower pace of play and the lower scoring games that result pulls us in the other direction as far as the game averages.
