make the charge/block rule easy

[upperdeck]

just go back to the original rule.. no such thing as taking a charge.. stop the ball, let the player go, your choice..

it would make for an interesting game.. maybe they should play a few that way and see how it works in preseason..

 

[xc84]

just go back to the original rule.. no such thing as taking a charge.. stop the ball, let the player go, your choice..

it would make for an interesting game.. maybe they should play a few that way and see how it works in preseason..

What does that mean? "stop the ball, let the player go"?

 

[ImperialOrange]

just go back to the original rule.. no such thing as taking a charge.. stop the ball, let the player go, your choice..

it would make for an interesting game.. maybe they should play a few that way and see how it works in preseason..

Street ball! I like it but it wouldnt fly in an organized setting. Players would get up spitting out chiclets. If you went that way you'd also have to redo the shooting foul to be only serious contact and not include the follow through (which I hate fwiw).

 

[stuckinbig11]

not a good idea

 

[CorduroyG]

anytime a shot goes in it should NEVER be a block. whats the goal of an offense? to score. whats the goal of a defense? to prevent the other team from scoring. well if the offensive player scores, the defensive player obviously didnt prevent him from scoring. i think blocking fouls, for the most part, is by far the worst call in all of sports. an offensive player can make a sick move, blow by his defender, then soar in for a beautiful layup...and get penalized cause another defensive player is just standing there??? its a JOKE. it defeats the purpose of basketball, to put the ball in the hoop. remember warrick's tea bag in the f4 against texas? THAT WAS CALLED A FREAKIN CHARGE!!!! the only time it should be a charge is when the offensive player is out of control. like if hes just barreling towards the basket and runs over a defender and just flings the ball towards the basket that has no chance of going in. if youre in control enough to make the shot, then youre not out of control. as bilas says, unless its an OBVIOUS charge, it should ALWAYS be a block.

another thing is they should be able to review if a player was in the restricted circle. its no different than an out of bounds call. it would take an extra 30 seconds to review that. we called a charge, but his foot was in the restricted area, change it to a block. they have to do something to fix this cuz its ruining college basketball.

 

[rstone7727]

anytime a shot goes in it should NEVER be a block. whats the goal of an offense? to score. whats the goal of a defense? to prevent the other team from scoring. well if the offensive player scores, the defensive player obviously didnt prevent him from scoring. i think blocking fouls, for the most part, is by far the worst call in all of sports. an offensive player can make a sick move, blow by his defender, then soar in for a beautiful layup...and get penalized cause another defensive player is just standing there??? its a JOKE. it defeats the purpose of basketball, to put the ball in the hoop. remember warrick's tea bag in the f4 against texas? THAT WAS CALLED A FREAKIN CHARGE!!!! the only time it should be a charge is when the offensive player is out of control. like if hes just barreling towards the basket and runs over a defender and just flings the ball towards the basket that has no chance of going in. if youre in control enough to make the shot, then youre not out of control. as bilas says, unless its an OBVIOUS charge, it should ALWAYS be a block.

another thing is they should be able to review if a player was in the restricted circle. its no different than an out of bounds call. it would take an extra 30 seconds to review that. we called a charge, but his foot was in the restricted area, change it to a block. they have to do something to fix this cuz its ruining college basketball.

Great post on this subject Corduroy...

 

[kuethstheman]

anytime a shot goes in it should NEVER be a block. whats the goal of an offense? to score. whats the goal of a defense? to prevent the other team from scoring. well if the offensive player scores, the defensive player obviously didnt prevent him from scoring. i think blocking fouls, for the most part, is by far the worst call in all of sports. an offensive player can make a sick move, blow by his defender, then soar in for a beautiful layup...and get penalized cause another defensive player is just standing there??? its a JOKE. it defeats the purpose of basketball, to put the ball in the hoop. remember warrick's tea bag in the f4 against texas? THAT WAS CALLED A FREAKIN CHARGE!!!! the only time it should be a charge is when the offensive player is out of control. like if hes just barreling towards the basket and runs over a defender and just flings the ball towards the basket that has no chance of going in. if youre in control enough to make the shot, then youre not out of control. as bilas says, unless its an OBVIOUS charge, it should ALWAYS be a block.

another thing is they should be able to review if a player was in the restricted circle. its no different than an out of bounds call. it would take an extra 30 seconds to review that. we called a charge, but his foot was in the restricted area, change it to a block. they have to do something to fix this cuz its ruining college basketball.

I don't think you should be able to run people over, whether the shot goes in or not.

I take Bilas's comment to mean that if the defender didn't clearly have position then don't call it a charge. I don't think he meant that the offensive player needs to have taken leave of his senses for it to be a charge.

 

[baggerbob]

It should be same as baseball rule tie goes to the runner, if the defensive player isn't clearly set and outside the restricted area it's a block. The other part of that is when a guy is in the air and someone slides underneath him should be a flagrant foul wes,kris others have been hurt that way its worse then the nonsense about elbows because people are in the air and can't protect thenselves.

 

[orangefan13]

The NCAA should hire a 4th official for every game.
Keep 2 posted one on each baseline not running the floor. And when I say baseline I mean under the hoop not on the sideline baseline corner.

Then have the 2 on each baseline switch at halftime with the two runing the court.
That would help the lack of being able to keep up leading to calling Haks, slaps, charges and blocks the wrong way. And they would always be posted correctly for transition plays.

 

[SmilinBob]

Just extend the charge box and hopefully the NCAA will force the refs to study and talk about charges in the off season and try to have a point of emphasis on what to do.

 

[SBU72]

anytime a shot goes in it should NEVER be a block. whats the goal of an offense? to score. whats the goal of a defense? to prevent the other team from scoring. well if the offensive player scores, the defensive player obviously didnt prevent him from scoring. i think blocking fouls, for the most part, is by far the worst call in all of sports. an offensive player can make a sick move, blow by his defender, then soar in for a beautiful layup...and get penalized cause another defensive player is just standing there??? its a JOKE. it defeats the purpose of basketball, to put the ball in the hoop. remember warrick's tea bag in the f4 against texas? THAT WAS CALLED A FREAKIN CHARGE!!!! the only time it should be a charge is when the offensive player is out of control. like if hes just barreling towards the basket and runs over a defender and just flings the ball towards the basket that has no chance of going in. if youre in control enough to make the shot, then youre not out of control. as bilas says, unless its an OBVIOUS charge, it should ALWAYS be a block.

another thing is they should be able to review if a player was in the restricted circle. its no different than an out of bounds call. it would take an extra 30 seconds to review that. we called a charge, but his foot was in the restricted area, change it to a block. they have to do something to fix this cuz its ruining college basketball.

If the rules are there to keep players from gaining an unfair advantage, I agree with you. If the block isn't sever enough to keep the player from scoring, then no advatage was gained. If the block keeps the guy from scoring then it was an unfair advantage. And if a guy runs over a player to get to the hoop, then he shouldn't get the score either. A guy taking a charge is more often than not, just there to take a charge. He is usually not even trying to defend. THe's trying to gain an unfair advantage and he should not be allowed it.

 

[xc84]

The current rules are fine. If the refs called it correctly, we would not have this thread.

 

[xc84]

If the rules are there to keep players from gaining an unfair advantage, I agree with you. If the block isn't sever enough to keep the player from scoring, then no advatage was gained. If the block keeps the guy from scoring then it was an unfair advantage. And if a guy runs over a player to get to the hoop, then he shouldn't get the score either. A guy taking a charge is more often than not, just there to take a charge. He is usually not even trying to defend. THe's trying to gain an unfair advantage and he should not be allowed it.

So, let's take it to the extreme. The defensive guy inadvertently slams offensive guy , who is shooting, to the ground with his "block". The ball goes in. Apparently, "the block isn't severe enough to keep the player from scoring". No foul? Of course it's a foul and the player should get another shot.

 

[CorduroyG]

The current rules are fine. If the refs called it correctly, we would not have this thread.

the current rules are not fine. if a defensive player is standing just outside the restricted area, and an offensive player drives and throws down a sick dunk or makes a beautiful acrobatic layup, but "charges" into the defensive player, its a charge right? does that make any sense? it doesnt make sense to me to penalize a player FOR ACCOMPLISHING THE GOAL OF BASKETBALL WHICH IS TO PUT THE BALL IN THE HOOP just because a defensive player is literally standing still.

again, perfect example is warrick's tea bag against texas. according to the rules thats a charge, ivey established position and is just standing there as warrick dunks over him. you really think those 2 points shouldnt have counted?

 

[upperdeck]

the original rules of basketball going into the 50's was no charges were called.. you dribbled and if a player took it away that was fine, otherwise as a defender you had to get out of the way of the balls path. you defended by taking the ball not by stopping the player.. simple rule. the better dribbler you were the tougher you were to stop..

would make for an interesting game to try and stop Lebron.

 

[jncuse]

I sort of want the charge eliminated. If you get to the spot first, its good D, but no call -- the reward is you have forced a harder shot or potentially a turnover. It would also give no advantage to flopping and encourage standing tall when contact is made. If its borderline block/charge, advantage to the defender... and no call. If the shot still goes in... well its a situation of a player overcoming good D.

A block is still a foul. But as I said above, close calls that can go either way, go to the D.

I realize there is many potential flaws with the above, but I am tired of flopping and endless charge calls.

 

[SBU72]

So, let's take it to the extreme. The defensive guy inadvertently slams offensive guy , who is shooting, to the ground with his "block". The ball goes in. Apparently, "the block isn't severe enough to keep the player from scoring". No foul? Of course it's a foul and the player should get another shot.

Understand what you are saying. I didn't think it was a perfect solution but just pointing out that fouls are suppose to refelect one player trying to take an un-fair advantage over another. Look at the old force out rule. Us to be that a defensive player could be in a positin where he forced a player out of bounds but the offenesive team still maintained the ball. Now it's either a turnover or a foul. There are plenty of situations where it really is neither but the rules don't recognize that. What you suggest in the extreme might be a "play on" as Raf would say.

 

[General20]

This is a great thread because it addresses the biggest internal flaw in the sport. And a problem that must be solved.

I have two ideas.

One, whoever initiates the contact should draw the foul. If an offensive player barrels into a defender it should be an offensive foul, but if an offensive player is driving to the basket and a defender slides in front of him the defender should draw the foul (even if his feet are planted). Defense should be about staying in front of your man, not standing in front of the basket and pretending to fall over when an offensive player comes around. I see no logic in why initiating contact becomes ok if your feet are planted.

Two, anybody who falls on purpose should get a technical foul. People complain about flopping in soccer, but it happens about ten times in basketball for every one time it happens in soccer. If you watch clumsy amateurs who cant chew gum and walk at the same time play pickup basketball, you will never see anybody fall. If you watch graceful athletes at the top of their sport play, someone falls almost every time down court.

I think its appalling that officials only seem to reward the defense when the defense deliberately and obviously tries to trick them. Are officials so bad that they dont know when a foul occurs unless someone falls?

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I think there should be such a thing as a charge ...but the only player eligible to draw a charge is the PRIMARY defender who is guarding the would be charger. If you are so good defensively that your opponent has to literally run over you as the primary defender, then you deserve to be credited.

where the weak comes in to play is the help or secondary defender. basically the offensive player BEATS his primary defender and is about to score when low and behold some defender previously engaged with another player sneakily slides underneath the offensive player attempting to score.

in fact, even if this offensive player GIVES UP THE BALL to his now open teammate (who the helper just left open) the offensive player CAN STILL BE CALLED FOR A CHARGE.

it is this secondary defender/sliding issue where the majority of refs blow the calls. it is not when players are just standing there planted in front of their man. those calls are easy and are in fact rare.

what drives me even more bonkers is how even if a defender is in great position and gets run into by a driver, he NEVER gets the "charge" call unless he flops. basically rewarding diving.