MSG moving?

[sabach]

I wonder what this will do with the negotiations for the ACCT in MSG?

http://www.cbssports.com/general/bl...dison-square-garden-permit-capped-at-10-years

 

[Knicks411]

I have a hard time seeing the Garden move, especially since they just spent so much money renovating it. But I guess we'll see

 

[OttoMets]

It's going to happen, but I bet they'll get another ten-year extension. By 2030 or so, I think the city's going to clear out the Javits site and we'll probably see a new arena over there.

 

[longtimefan]

It's going to happen, but I bet they'll get another ten-year extension. By 2030 or so, I think the city's going to clear out the Javits site and we'll probably see a new arena over there.

There was a serious proposal half a dozen years ago to move right across the street to the post office site. It would have included the renovation (restoration) of Penn Station, basically killing 2 birds with one stone. Then came the economic melt-down.

 

[OttoMets]

There was a serious proposal half a dozen years ago to move right across the street to the post office site. It would have included the renovation (restoration) of Penn Station, basically killing 2 birds with one stone. Then came the economic melt-down.

That would have been best - Eighth Avenue is a perfect spot with all the transit there.

The Moynihan Station work isn't going to preclude arena construction on the post office block, as far as I know. If they were to revive that plan in a decade or so, that'd be awesome. But I think the city wants to increase density in the neighborhood and I know everyone (other than the Dolans) wants a massive renovation of Penn Station that pulls it out of its cave, so to speak. So if the city pushes for high-rises on the west end of the Farley site, the Garden's probably out of luck.

 

[cuseincincy]

I honestly never realized that MSG was only 45 years old. Feels much older going in it. As long as they build a new one in Manhattan. Javits site would be awsome.

 

[Madbiker]

This is political retribution coming from Mayor Bloomberg against the Dolans, who head the corporation that owns MSG. The Dolans were key in blocking the Mayor's plan to build a new domed stadium on the city's west side which would have served as the Olympic stadium and central to a bid from NYC to host a future summer Olympics. The Dolans did not want the stadium built because they viewed it as future competition with MSG for sports events and concerts. The Mayor has not forgotten that and now is trying to put the screws to the Dolans and force them out of MSG after they have spent $1 billion of their own private money to completely renovate MSG. Bloomberg controls the City Council now just as he did 4 years ago when he bribed key council members to overturn the 2 term limit on serving as Mayor, which had been passed on not just one but two previous voter referendums. So much for the will of the people. Hopefully when Bloomberg leaves after his 3rd term is up in 2 years this will just go away when a new, more rational Mayor takes over. It is certainly possible to renovate Penn Station, which is underneath MSG, with MSG still in place.

 

[KaiserUEO]

damn liberals.

this story just crept up about a month ago.

i hope its bullspit, but you never know.

the ACC would have to be aware and looking in to this with regards to their tourny.

the thought of the Knicks and Rangers playing a season or 2 at brendan byrne or the barclays is petrifying.

Oh Lord

 

[longtimefan]

damn liberals.

this story just crept up about a month ago.

i hope its bullspit, but you never know.

the ACC would have to be aware and looking in to this with regards to their tourny.

the thought of the Knicks and Rangers playing a season or 2 at brendan byrne or the barclays is petrifying.

Oh Lord

The screw-up happened in the '60's. The current Garden should not have been plopped on top of Penn Station.

 

[Knicks411]

Is there any easy way to get to Javitts via public trans? I've only been there once, to take CFA level 1, and I remember it being quite a bitch to get to

 

[Alsacs]

This is Bloomberg 100% no doubt. He is leaving office and giving the Dolan Family a goodbye punch to the gut. MSG shouldn't be moved, and the fact this came out after the Dolan's committed 1 Billion Dollars to renovate the facility when I am sure the MSG legal department vetted the fact their lease would expire in the near future. I can't believe the MSG people didn't think they were a lock to get a permit for a lot longer than 10 years. It wouldn't shock me if one of the NYC Mayoral candidates ends up meeting with the Dolan Family and getting a lot of political donations and support in the race for mayor against Christine Quinn now.

 

[OttoMets]

This is political retribution coming from Mayor Bloomberg against the Dolans, who head the corporation that owns MSG. The Dolans were key in blocking the Mayor's plan to build a new domed stadium on the city's west side which would have served as the Olympic stadium and central to a bid from NYC to host a future summer Olympics. The Dolans did not want the stadium built because they viewed it as future competition with MSG for sports events and concerts. The Mayor has not forgotten that and now is trying to put the screws to the Dolans and force them out of MSG after they have spent $1 billion of their own private money to completely renovate MSG. Bloomberg controls the City Council now just as he did 4 years ago when he bribed key council members to overturn the 2 term limit on serving as Mayor, which had been passed on not just one but two previous voter referendums. So much for the will of the people. Hopefully when Bloomberg leaves after his 3rd term is up in 2 years this will just go away when a new, more rational Mayor takes over. It is certainly possible to renovate Penn Station, which is underneath MSG, with MSG still in place.

Some people want to stick it to the Dolans, Bloomberg and the NFL among them, for their campaign against the West Side stadium.

But Quinn and Bloomberg don't exactly see eye-to-eye. Her June push for only 10 more years was an independent (and, to many, surprising) move. She argued for this based on heavy popular support; the community, the borough president, Amtrak - a lot of people wanted an even shorter limit. (Also, Bloomberg's term is up this fall and Quinn is certainly going to succeed him.)

MSG renovated knowing that their permit was up for renewal. And they were as aware as anyone that increased density and a renovated Penn Station were higher priorities than maintaining an arena on the site; the renovation was intended to increase revenue in the short term, buying the Knicks and Rangers some time before they have to move. A billion dollars is a drop in the bucket to them; they'll make that back twice over before the decade is out.

Finally, it's not possible to do much of anything to a basement train station with a 25-foot ceiling and an arena on top of it. And the inadequacy of the Amtrak facility is far from the only reason that the Planning Commission wants changes at Penn Plaza.

 

[OttoMets]

Is there any easy way to get to Javitts via public trans? I've only been there once, to take CFA level 1, and I remember it being quite a bitch to get to

The 7 is being extended out there with a station at 41st and 10th; it's supposed to be open by the end of next year.

It's a wasteland now (and it'll never offer the amenities that the Garden site does) but it's going to blow up with train access. A lot of land speculation going on over there.

 

[shandeezy7]

They should move MSG to Syracuse, then it would really count as a home game

 

[OttoMets]

This is Bloomberg 100% no doubt. He is leaving office and giving the Dolan Family a goodbye punch to the gut. MSG shouldn't be moved, and the fact this came out after the Dolan's committed 1 Billion Dollars to renovate the facility when I am sure the MSG legal department vetted the fact their lease would expire in the near future. I can't believe the MSG people didn't think they were a lock to get a permit for a lot longer than 10 years. It wouldn't shock me if one of the NYC Mayoral candidates ends up meeting with the Dolan Family and getting a lot of political donations and support in the race for mayor against Christine Quinn now.

No, they knew that this was likely. Their attorneys probably were counting on a 20-year extension, but they knew it could be shorter.

And they knew it before they decided on renovation rather than new construction on the Farley block. Since they were deeply involved with Penn/Moynihan Station talks since the late '90s, it's been understood that they're going to be changing sites at some point. The renovation is intended to allow the clubs to max out their revenue for the remainder of their time on site - whether that's 10 years or 20, they're going to recoup the cost very soon.

 

[Knicks411]

The 7 is being extended out there with a station at 41st and 10th; it's supposed to be open by the end of next year.

It's a wasteland now (and it'll never offer the amenities that the Garden site does) but it's going to blow up with train access. A lot of land speculation going on over there.

You're right, I totally forgot about that. At least that's something.

I would be real bummed out if the Garden got moved. Lot of good memories at that location

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is political retribution coming from Mayor Bloomberg against the Dolans, who head the corporation that owns MSG. The Dolans were key in blocking the Mayor's plan to build a new domed stadium on the city's west side which would have served as the Olympic stadium and central to a bid from NYC to host a future summer Olympics. The Dolans did not want the stadium built because they viewed it as future competition with MSG for sports events and concerts. The Mayor has not forgotten that and now is trying to put the screws to the Dolans and force them out of MSG after they have spent $1 billion of their own private money to completely renovate MSG. Bloomberg controls the City Council now just as he did 4 years ago when he bribed key council members to overturn the 2 term limit on serving as Mayor, which had been passed on not just one but two previous voter referendums. So much for the will of the people. Hopefully when Bloomberg leaves after his 3rd term is up in 2 years this will just go away when a new, more rational Mayor takes over. It is certainly possible to renovate Penn Station, which is underneath MSG, with MSG still in place.

Good call on the back story behind this.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Is there any easy way to get to Javitts via public trans? I've only been there once, to take CFA level 1, and I remember it being quite a bitch to get to

You basically have to walk 3 long avenues from where Penn Station is. It's a pain the butt for sure.

 

[joct]

Will the Blarney move too?

 

[NKR1978]

Some people want to stick it to the Dolans, Bloomberg and the NFL among them, for their campaign against the West Side stadium.

But Quinn and Bloomberg don't exactly see eye-to-eye. Her June push for only 10 more years was an independent (and, to many, surprising) move. She argued for this based on heavy popular support; the community, the borough president, Amtrak - a lot of people wanted an even shorter limit. (Also, Bloomberg's term is up this fall and Quinn is certainly going to succeed him.)

MSG renovated knowing that their permit was up for renewal. And they were as aware as anyone that increased density and a renovated Penn Station were higher priorities than maintaining an arena on the site; the renovation was intended to increase revenue in the short term, buying the Knicks and Rangers some time before they have to move. A billion dollars is a drop in the bucket to them; they'll make that back twice over before the decade is out.

Finally, it's not possible to do much of anything to a basement train station with a 25-foot ceiling and an arena on top of it. And the inadequacy of the Amtrak facility is far from the only reason that the Planning Commission wants changes at Penn Plaza.

Quinn is my first choice for mayor, even though I completely disagree with this whole development, but I don't think she has much of a chance of getting the nomination. Most people I know can't stand her and think she's a Bloomberg in waiting. I love Bloomberg and agree that she's most likely to follow his policies. She will win the first round but I don't see any way that she will win a run off. Assuming Carlos Danger is finally dead, its between her and Thompson and Thompson will win likely win the run off.

Regardless, this MSG situation is pretty asinine. The old Penn station was a monument that should never have been torn down. Now, MSG is a monument and should never be torn down.

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