My 2023 SU Football Preview - Part 1 | Syracusefan.com

My 2023 SU Football Preview - Part 1

SWC75

Bored Historian
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
34,060
Like
65,803
(This is what I send to friends and relatives across the country. I'll be posting this in sections, once a day.)

The Situation

College Football - Once again, you can’t talk about Syracuse football without talking first about what’s happening with college football. College Football has changed many times in its history and what we remember from 20, 40, 60 years ago was not what it has always been but the changes were incremental and logical from a geographic standpoint. In this era, the conferences are “hitting the fan” and are becoming unrecognizable and totally illogical from the standpoint of why conferences have always been formed. The idea had always been to make scheduling easier and create interest by uniting natural geographical rivals that have a history between them in one unit such that each year, you know who, (typically) 8 of your opponents will be: you just have to arrange a date and time. Meanwhile, fans, especially the families of the players can drive to road games and the conference itself comes to represent a particular area of the country.

Now they are being put together by TV executives who figure they can make, (and thus pay out to the schools) the most TV money if they unite the most successful programs with the biggest TV markets. The top schools are all for that and also for reducing the number of partners in digging this gold. I call this the “college football rapture” with the chosen ones moving upward to a college football nirvana and ‘leaving behind’ the lesser schools, (and markets), to fend for themselves in an economic desert. I think this is a “be careful what you wish for” situation. College sports have always been about the smaller markets and fans that want their local team to put their area on the map. College sports is well down the totem pole in the big markets that are dominated by pro sports. Also the football factories will miss the schools they used to beat every year when they go 4-8 in a bad year instead of 10-2 because they are facing other football factories week after week.

I also think that the ‘left behind’ may not be in such a bad situation. They may not get a share of the ‘big money’ but they will be able to organize themselves in more traditional conferences that their fans will find more attractive than being in one of the super conferences and being road kill for the football factories every week. I don’t think we’d be chosen but imagine if we were in a super-conference and had to play Penn State, then Ohio State, then Michigan, then Michigan State and then Notre Dame. How fun would that be? If we wound up in a “left behind” conference centered in the east, we might be perennial contenders and could win it or even a national championship in what might be Division 1 of the NCAA if the super-conferences break off and form their own organization. That doesn’t sound so bad.

The fans are the ultimate source of any money that gets made. They buy the tickets and concessions. They pay for the parking and preferred seating. They contribute to the university and to NIL opportunities. They watch the commercials, click on the websites and join the internet sites that require membership. It all comes from the fans and if you want to make more money, you need to present something that appeals to the fans more than what you’ve got, or that would create more fans. Leaving behind the schools that aren’t football or TV powerhouses cuts off the fans of the schools you left behind. I predict that the powerhouses and the TV people will want us back someday.

Syracuse has always been in the highest level of college football. By that I don’t mean they’ve always been an elite program, always competing for a national championship. I mean whatever the highest level of the college sport was, we competed at that level. We were ‘big time’ and not ‘small time’. We were in the ‘University Division’, not the ‘College Division”. We were in ‘Division 1’, not 2 or 3. We were in ‘Division 1A‘ not 1AA. We are ‘FBS’ not FCS and in the ‘Power 5’, not the Group of 5. Many have the mindset that if we aren’t at the top level, that would be a huge disaster and the fans would lose interest and the program would fade into irrelevance or even disappear. I don’t think it will be that bad. Fans of North Dakota State and Mount Union have been having fun at less than the highest level for years and we could, too.

What would we do without the big money? We never made big money when Ben Schwartzwalder or even Dick McPherson and Paul Pasqualoni were here. We still played college football. Being ‘left behind’ might put an end to or at least tone down the facilities arms race and that would be a good thing. A dose of sanity would be welcome.

(Tomorrow: Syracuse's situation)
 
It’s a good, if hopeful, take. There may be a generational divide in who finds regional rivalries more appealing than matchups with top schools. I do, but I started rooting for ‘Cuse in the late 80s. Those regional rivalries might not mean as much as someone who started watching in say 2005
 
I liked the original post up until the fun at less than the highest level. Did you really suggest we should be happy playing at the level of North Dakota State and Mount Union? If we don’t have a chance to play for a national title,I’m out for all of college football.It will be dead to me.
 
I liked the original post up until the fun at less than the highest level. Did you really suggest we should be happy playing at the level of North Dakota State and Mount Union? If we don’t have a chance to play for a national title,I’m out for all of college football.It will be dead to me.

You don't think NDS and MU fans are happy?

We're not at the top level now. The NFL is the top level.

We could wind up winning a national title at what would be the highest level of the NCAA if the super conferences break off.
 
You don't think NDS and MU fans are happy?

We're not at the top level now. The NFL is the top level.

We could wind up winning a national title at what would be the highest level of the NCAA if the super conferences break off.
Playing at that level is all that North Dakota State and Mount Union fans have ever known, so of course it's exciting for them. We're a program that's had a lot of exciting moments playing at the top level and the reason why many of us have stuck around is the glimmer of hope that maybe one season, everything can go right to see us there again. So 50 years down the line when whatever comes of college football is all that generation of fans have known, it will probably be fun for them. But for now, it will be different for many of us if we aren't playing at the top level of college football. And the NFL has always been different than college, so to even bring that up is absurd.
 
Last edited:
I liked the original post up until the fun at less than the highest level. Did you really suggest we should be happy playing at the level of North Dakota State and Mount Union? If we don’t have a chance to play for a national title,I’m out for all of college football.It will be dead to me.
I don't think you are alone either. Personally I don't think SU is in the big time football game by 2050, and I don't think most fans will attend games if we aren't considered a big dog. Everyone says they will, but I guess we shall see.
 
You don't think NDS and MU fans are happy?

We're not at the top level now. The NFL is the top level.

We could wind up winning a national title at what would be the highest level of the NCAA if the super conferences break off.
Not sure about NDSt, but I am sure the 2,249 fans (average over 9 games) that go to Mt Union games are very happy with their success.
 
Keep in mind that we wouldn't be demoted. We just wouldn't be promoted to a level that has never existed before.

And I can't imagine failing to care about SU football, wherever they are.
 
Keep in mind that we wouldn't be demoted. We just wouldn't be promoted to a level that has never existed before.

And I can't imagine failing to care about SU football, wherever they are.
You know as well as I do that we've always competed at the top level, whatever that might be. I'll still care about SU football also, but it will be different to not compete against the best of the best. So I can understand if it won't be as much fun for many. It probably won't be for me, even though I'll still follow the program.
 
You know as well as I do that we've always competed at the top level, whatever that might be. I'll still care about SU football also, but it will be different to not compete against the best of the best. So I can understand if it won't be as much fun for many. It probably won't be for me, even though I'll still follow the program.


But how competitive would we be against the best of the best, week after week? We've got the worst record in the ACC since we joined it, (26-56 in conference games). How much interest does losing create?

We could win in a reconstituted NCAA Division 1 - and maybe win it all. How much interest would that create?
 
But how competitive would we be against the best of the best, week after week? We've got the worst record in the ACC since we joined it, (26-56 in conference games). How much interest does losing create?

We could win in a reconstituted NCAA Division 1 - and maybe win it all. How much interest would that create?
Why do you keep coming back season after season despite so much losing? Because there's always hope. That's part of being a fan. 2018 wasn't that long ago. And not every single team in the Big 10 and SEC is going to turn into a superpower, like not all of them are now.

We just fundamentally disagree on this issue, like we do having the automatic qualifiers in the NCAA tournament, rather than having a separate tournament.
 
Why do you keep coming back season after season despite so much losing? Because there's always hope. That's part of being a fan. 2018 wasn't that long ago. And not every single team in the Big 10 and SEC is going to turn into a superpower, like not all of them are now.

We just fundamentally disagree on this issue, like we do having the automatic qualifiers in the NCAA tournament, rather than having a separate tournament.

There wouldn't be much hope for us in a Super-conference, certainly not to win it.

I agree that there's a sort of parallel to the basketball tournament. I'd rather win a national title than hope to pull off the occasional upset, which would be easier in basketball than football. There wouldn't be the equivalent of a Florida Atlantic Final Four run in a football super-conference. And Florida Atlantic has their own conference of peers with which to build up their record. That's very different from being a bottom-feeder in a super-conference.
 
Last edited:
You don't think NDS and MU fans are happy?

We're not at the top level now. The NFL is the top level.

We could wind up winning a national title at what would be the highest level of the NCAA if the super conferences break off.

But how competitive would we be against the best of the best, week after week? We've got the worst record in the ACC since we joined it, (26-56 in conference games). How much interest does losing create?

We could win in a reconstituted NCAA Division 1 - and maybe win it all. How much interest would that create?
What if the Syracuse Mets became the major league team instead of the triple A franchise? Think the interest would be higher despite the fact that they have little chance of competing? Sorry, but you always want a seat at the adult table. I , for one, have little to no interest in a Triple A college world.
 
You know as well as I do that we've always competed at the top level, whatever that might be. I'll still care about SU football also, but it will be different to not compete against the best of the best. So I can understand if it won't be as much fun for many. It probably won't be for me, even though I'll still follow the program.
Kinda like playing in the NIT
 
What if the Syracuse Mets became the major league team instead of the triple A franchise? Think the interest would be higher despite the fact that they have little chance of competing? Sorry, but you always want a seat at the adult table. I , for one, have little to no interest in a Triple A college world.

No, I don't think the interest would be greater if we have little chance of competing. A minor league team really isn't a good comparison. It's a collection of players owned by another franchise held here in a kind of bullpen. We can't have a major league team because our market isn't big enough. College teams have their own players and compete for championships that have real meaning.

Would you really rather go 2-10 in a good year in a super-conference than go 10-2 in a good year in a conference of our peers and be in a playoff for the championship of a division of our peers? Do you really think the first would sustain fan interest than the latter?
 
Last edited:
I'd be ALLLL in if College Football did a Pro/Rel setup. That'd be awesome.
 
Again, do you think NDS or MU think they've won the NIT when they win their championships?
I don’t know what they would be thinking, but I know I would feel as if we were playing in the NIT.
Would be rooting to win it but the euphoria of winning like when we won the 2003 bball championship just wouldn’t be there.
 
Kinda like playing in the NIT
I tend to agree with SWC75's attitude. A regional football grouping where fans could easily drive to away games would satisfy a lot of our needs. Especially if it includes other fine schools and old rivals. I could learn to live with it but want more nonetheless. Maybe hoops is what keeps SU in any conversation about a superconference. We have a national championship in each after all. And a strong history. If both FB & BB go on a multi-year winning streak, I think we're involved.
 
But how competitive would we be against the best of the best, week after week? We've got the worst record in the ACC since we joined it, (26-56 in conference games). How much interest does losing create?

We could win in a reconstituted NCAA Division 1 - and maybe win it all. How much interest would that create?

It would be a disaster being in the SEC or Big Ten.

Our lack of success in the ACC is mostly due to scheduling getting a team that owns us as our crossover and still not welcoming the Hurricane's to the Dome as an ACC member. We unquestionably have played Clemson the toughest of any ACC school over that time period.

I don't think that many things have to break in our favor to win 10 games in a given year. If the ACC doesn't make it I feel good that the conference we end up in we'll be a big fish and have a chance to win it just don't go Indy and we'll be OK.
 
It’s a good, if hopeful, take. There may be a generational divide in who finds regional rivalries more appealing than matchups with top schools. I do, but I started rooting for ‘Cuse in the late 80s. Those regional rivalries might not mean as much as someone who started watching in say 2005
Who in their right mind would have started watching Syracuse football in 2005?
 
I tend to agree with SWC75's attitude. A regional football grouping where fans could easily drive to away games would satisfy a lot of our needs. Especially if it includes other fine schools and old rivals. I could learn to live with it but want more nonetheless. Maybe hoops is what keeps SU in any conversation about a superconference. We have a national championship in each after all. And a strong history. If both FB & BB go on a multi-year winning streak, I think we're involved.
How many people are going to drive to away football games in a lower division?Lucky to get 8-10 thousand at home games.
 
No, I don't think the interest would be greater if we have little chance of competing. A minor league team really isn't a good comparison. It's a collection of players owned by another franchise held here in a kind of bullpen. We can't have a major league team because our market isn't big enough. College teams have their own players and compete for championships that have real meaning.

Would you really rather go 2-10 in a good year in a super-conference than go 10-2 in a good year in a conference of our peers and be in a playoff for the championship of a division of our peers? Do you really think the first would sustain fan interest than the latter?
I don’t pretend to know what sustains other fans interest. I don’t anticipate 2-10 seasons and 10-2 beating 10 North Dakota States and Mount Unions does ZERO for me.
 
I'm moving on to other sections of my preview, (check out Part 2).

I'll leave with these two points:

I can't emphasize enough that the super-conference idea is creating a new level of competition that never existed before. getting "left behind" means we - and a lot of peer schools - stay where we are. It's not a demotion. we'd get killed in a super-conference and it wouldn't be much fun. I think the super-conference idea will probably collapse under its own weight anyway and we'll be welcoming them back at some point.

Everybody likes metaphors so I'll add this one: You've been living in a house you've been comfortable in for years. You find out that there's a new development just over the hill. You climb up there and see mansions being built you could never afford. You decide you'll never be happy until you are living in one of those homes, even if you couldn't afford the price, the upkeep or the taxes. Back home, you confess this new obsession to your wife, who says she'd rather stay in the home they've been comfortable in surrounded by fiends they've known for years. Who's right?
 
How many people are going to drive to away football games in a lower division?Lucky to get 8-10 thousand at home games.
I think worst case we end up in the AAC. More likely scenario the remnants of the ACC would add teams like ECU, UConn, UMass and James Madison if the ACC loses 6-10 teams.

CUSA is the only league that has signed a GOR so teams would be available.

I think the most likely outcome (over the two scenarios above) is the ACC loses 2-4 teams and the rest recommit to stay together as long as the league has a path to the title. In this scenario schools like UConn, USF, Tulane and SMU would be considered to join.

I don't count on Notre Dame to stick around either in most scenarios...cuz Notre Dame.

If CalFord is there...another option is to build a western division.
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
170,646
Messages
4,902,875
Members
6,005
Latest member
CuseCanuck

Online statistics

Members online
172
Guests online
1,287
Total visitors
1,459


...
Top Bottom