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Message: [QUOTE="SWC75, post: 4643888, member: 289"] Here is my annual listing of the top NBA Players as measured by “Net Points”: Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks minus Missed Field Goals + Missed Free Throws + Turnovers + Personal Fouls. I’ve always ranked the players by their gross totals, rather than their averages. I figure a player with a greater rate of production still has a value of zero in the games he doesn’t play. Also, we don’t know if he would have retained quite that rate if he’d played in more games and the player with the lower rate who played in more games might have had a stretch where he had a comparable rate over the same number of games as the other fellow. But now we have this concept of ‘load maintenance’ and the games’ top stars are playing fewer games than they historically have. Ten years ago, the top 25 players in points played in 1,951 games, an average of 78 per player, (click on points): [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_totals.html[/URL] This year the top 25 scorers played in 1,732 games, 69 per player. So the gross total top 25 will be different than the per 48 minute rate. But I’ll still go with the gross totals because that’s how I’ve done it in prior years. I’ll also show the per 48 minutes rate for the Net Points and for each individual stat. “NP is “Net Points”. OE is “Offensive Efficiency”: points minute missed field goals and free throws. ‘FG” is “Floor Game”, (NP-OE). Nikola Jokić, Denver 2,448NP 33.7m 34.9p 16.9r 14.0a 1.8s 1.0b - 7.8mfg 1.5mft 5.1to 3.6pf = 50.6NP 25.6OE 25.0FG Domantas Sabonis, Sacramento 2,177NP 34.6m 26.5p 17.1r 10.1a 1.1s 0.7b - 6.3mfg 2.0mft 4.0to 4.9pf = 38.3NP 18.2OE 20.1FG Joel Embid, Philadelphia 2,164NP 34.6m 45.9p 14.1r 5.8a 1.4s 2.4b - 12.6mfg 2.3mft 4.7to 4.3pf = 45.7NP 31.0OE 14.7FG Jayson Tatum, Boston 2,049NP 36.9m 39.1p 11.4r 6.0a 1.4s 0.9b - 14.6mfg 1.6mft 3.7to 2.8pf = 36.1NP 22.9OE 13.2FG Luka Dončić, Dallas 2,048NP 36.2m 42.9p 11.4r 10.6a 1.8s 0.7b - 14.7mfg 3.6mft 4.7to 3.3pf = 41.1NP 24.6OE 16.5FG Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee 1,875NP 32.1m 46.5p 17.6r 8.5a 1.2s 1.2b – 13.5mfg 6.5mft 5.8to 4.7pf = 44.5NP 26.5OE 18.0FG Nikola Vučević, Chicago 1,837NP 33.5m 25.3p 15.8r 4.6a 1.0s 1.0b – 9.6mfg 0.5mft 2.4to 3.1f = 32.1NP 15.2OE 16.9FG Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Oklahoma City 1,821NP 35.5m 42.4p 6.5r 7.4a 2.2s 1.3b – 13.5mfg 1.4mft 3.8to 3.8pf = 37.3NP 27.5OE 9.8FG Julius Randle, New York 1,737NP 35.5m 34.0p 13.5r 5.5a 0.9s 0.4b – 13.6mfg 2.3mft 3.8to 4.1pf = 30.5NP 18.1OE 12.4FG Trae Young, Atlanta 1,691NP 34.8m 36.2p 4.1r 14.0a 1.5s 0.2b – 15.0mfg 1.4mfgt 5.7tp 2.0pf = 31.9NP 19.8OE 12.1FG Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers 1,687NP 34.0m 36.6p 17.7r 3.7a 1.5s 2.9b – 10.6mfg 2.4mft 3.1to 3.7pf = 42.6NP 20.5OE 22.1FG Jimmy Butler, Miami 1,646NP 33.4m 32.9p 8.4r 7.6a 2.6s 0.5b – 9.2mfg 1.9mft 2.3to 1.8pf = 36.8NP 21.8OE 15.0FG Damian Lillard, Portland 1,626NP 36.3m 42.5p 6.3r 9.7a 1.1s 0.4b – 14.7mfg 1.1mft 4.4to 2.5pf = 37.3NP 26.7OE 10.6FG Bam Abebayo, Miami 1,621NP 34.6m 28.2p 12.7r 4.4a 1.6s, 1.1b - 9.5mfg 1.4mft 3.5to 3.8pf = 29.8NP 17.3OE 12.5FG Pascal Siakam, Toronto 1,605NP 37.4m 31.1p 10.1r 7.5a 1.2s 0.7b – 12.4mfg 1.9mft 3.1to 4.1pf = 29.1NP 16.8OE 12.3FG DeMar DeRozan, Chicago 1,603NP 36.2m 32.5p 6.1r 5.8a 0.6s 2.7b – 11.6mfg 1.2mft 2.7to 3.3pf = 31.2NP 19.7OE 11.5FG De’Aaron Fox, Sacramento 1,586NP 33.4m 36.0p 6.0r 8.8a 1.4to 0.5b – 12.8mfg 1.9mft 3.6to 3.5pf = 30.9NP 21.3OE 9.6FG Laurie Markkanen, Utah 1,576NP 34.4m 35.7p 12.0r 2.6a 0.9s 0.8b – 12.1mfg 1.1mft 2.7to 2.9pf = 33.2NP 22.5OE10.7FG Lebron James, Los Angeles Lakers 1,552NP 35.5m 39.1p 11.2r 9.2a 1.2s 0.8b – 15.0mfg 1.9mft 4.4to 2.2pf = 38.0NP 22.2OE 15.8FG Zach Levine, Chicago 1,539NP 35.9m 33.2p 6.0r 5.7a 1.2s 0.3b – 12.4mfg 1.1mft 3.4to 2.8pf = 26.7NP 19.7OE 7.0FG Steph Curry, Golden State 1,519NP 34.7m 40.8p 8.4r 8.7a 1.3a 0.5b – 14.2mfg 0.6mft 4.4to 2.9pf = 37.6NP 26.0OE 11.6FG Donovan Mitchell, Cleveland 1,518NP 35.8m 37.9p 5.7r 5.9a 2.0a 0.5b – 14.3mfg 1.0mft 3.6to 3.3pf = 29.8NP 22.6OE 7.2FG Evan Mobley, Cleveland 1,506NP 34.4m 22.6p 12.6r 4.0a 1.1s 2.1b – 7.5mfg 1.8mft 2.6to 3.9pf = 26.6NP 13.3OE 13.3FG DeJounte Murray, Atlanta 1,478NP 36.4m 27.0p 6.9r 8.0a 2.0s 0.3b – 12.6mfg 0.6mft 2.9to 1.9pf = 26.2NP 13.8OE 12.4FG Kristaps Porziņģis, Washington 1,477NP 32.6m 34.1p 12.4r 3.9a 1.3s 2.3b = 11.6mfg 1.4mft 3.1to 4.4pf = 33.5NP 21.1OE 12.4FG Comments: Last year I created this discussion comparing Nikola Jokić’s season to that of Wilt Chamberlain in 1961-62: Nikola Jokić’s NP/48 of 51.8 broke a record that had lasted for 60 years. Wilt Chamberlain’s most prolific statistical season was 1961-62, when he became the only NBA player to ever average 50 points a game. His NP/48 that year was 50.3, which had been the highest ever. Jokić made 97 three point shots. Wilt, of course, had none. If you deduct those points, Jokić had 2,574NP, 49.9 per 48 minutes. In Wilt’s time they didn’t keep track of steals, blocks or turnovers. None of those are “big ticket items” among statistics and they often cancel each other out. But it’s possible that Wilt’s full Net Points, if we knew them would still be ahead of Jokić’s, although if we went in the opposite direction and eliminated Nicola’s steals, blocks and turnovers, his NP/48 actually rises to 53.9. Here are their available numbers, side-by-side: Nikola Jokić, Denver, 2021-22 2,671NP 38.8p 19.8r 11.3a 2.1s 1.2b – 10.6mfg 1.7mft 5.4to 3.7pf = 51.8NP 28.2OE 23.6FG Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia, 1961-62 4,060NP 49.8p 25.4r 2.4a – 19.3mfg 6.5mft 1.5pf = 50.3NP 24.0OE 26.3FG Note: Wilt was the more prolific scorer and rebounder but not yet the passer he later became. And he missed a ton of shots. Wilt played 3,882 minutes in 1961-62, Jokić 2,476 minutes in 2021-22. Wilt averaged less per 48 minutes than he did per game because he played an average of 48.5 minutes per game due to overtimes. (Wilt missed the last 8 minutes of a January 3rd game against the Lakers after he picked up a second technical foul. Those 8 minutes were the only minutes he missed all year.) Maybe that’s his most spectacular number. There have been, of course, many changes in the way the game is played and the way it’s called in the last 60 years. There has also been a lot of changes in the size and athleticism of the players. The statistics have changed as well, with the big factor being fewer possessions, fewer missed shots and thus fewer rebounds. Is Nikola Jokić a better player than Wilt Chamberlain was? My knee-jerk reaction is that that can’t be true but then, I’m a child of the 60’s and I’m probably biased. But much younger fans might think that nobody from the 60’s could compete with the players we have now. I think that games advance but there are always players from the past who would be great players now and it is at least possible that the greatest players of the past, Babe Ruth, Jim Brown, Wilt Chamberlain, Wayne Gretzky, etc. might still be the GOATS of their sport. They certainly dominated their time more than the top players do now. Wilt: [MEDIA=youtube]qfczQovODz8:6[/MEDIA] Nikola: [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXknuPo6jBQ"]We've Never Seen Anything Like Nikola Jokic[/URL] I also commented on the number of foreign players on this list of 25 top players: Giannis Antetokounmpo is from Greece Luka Dončić is from Slovenia Joel Embiid and Pascal Siakam are from Cameroon Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is from Canada (His mother was a sprinter from Antigua and Barbuda) Nikola Jokić is from Serbia Laurie Markkanen is from Finland Kristaps Porziņģis is from Latvia Domantas Sabonis is from Lithuania Nikola Vučević is from Montenegro (Bam Abebayo was born in Newark but his father is Nigerian. Donovan Mitchell was born in Elmsford, New York, north of the big city but his mother was Panamanian.) I had wondered if there were any from the Ukraine. The NBA does have a couple of Ukrainian players. Alex Len and Svi Mykhailiuk but they didn’t make our list. Then there is the badly thinning list of SU players in the league, although those last three words are a stretch in some cases: Jerami Grant (now in his 9th season for his 5th team) Portland Trail Blazers 1,016NP 35.7m 27.6p 6.0r 3.2a 1.1s 1.1b – 10.2mfg 1.4mft 2.5to 3.2pf = 21.7NP 16.0OE 5.7FG Oshae Brissett (now in his 4th season with two different teams) Indiana Pacers 356NP 16.7m 17.6p 9.7r 2.0a 1.5s 0.6b – 8.7mfg 1.8mft 1.5to 3.5pf = 15.9p 7.1OE 8.8FG Michael Carter-Williams (now in his 10th season with 6 teams) Orlando Magic 11NP 11.0m 18.5p 5.5r 7.6a 1.1s 1.1b 8.7mfg 3.3mft 4.4to 5.5pf = 11.9NP 6.5OE 5.4FG Cole Swider (rookie) Los Angeles Lakers 11NP 5.9m 12.3p 8.2r 4.7a 0.2s 0.0b – 7.0mfg 0.0mft 0.0to 3.5pf = 14.7NP 5.3OE 9.4FG Buddy Boeheim, Detroit Pistons 0NP 9.0m 8.5p 3.0r 2.1a 1.1s 0.0b – 11.7mfg 0.0mft 0.0to 3.5pf = -0.5NP -3.2OE 2.7FG (Buddy whose sole potential NBA level skill is shooting, was 5 for 27 from the field, including 4 for 25 from three point range.) 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