NCAA issues

[SWC75]

Emerson: Going the employee route might be the only way the NCAA can set its own rules

The NCAA can hope, or it can be proactive and move toward a solution on transfers and NIL that the courts won't overthrow.

theathletic.com

I think schools should declare what sports are "revenue" sports and pay the players as employees and what are non-revenue sports, that is opportunities offered by the university to it's students, with different sets of rules for each.

 

[upperdeck]

So do you just remove all the non revenue sports with title iX issues in play?

the money is coming in for 2-3 sports if they do the pro model of like 40-50% goes to the players the schools are in deep doo doo.

 

[SWC75]

So do you just remove all the non revenue sports with title iX issues in play?

the money is coming in for 2-3 sports if they do the pro model of like 40-50% goes to the players the schools are in deep doo doo.

I would would apply Title IX, (it's supposed to be about equal opportunities), to the non-revenue sports and let the market rule with the revenue sports.

 

[shandeezy7]

I would would apply Title IX, (it's supposed to be about equal opportunities), to the non-revenue sports and let the market rule with the revenue sports.

You might want to do that, but would the government go along with it? Especially if it remains structured as is, with the universities continuing to operate the athletic programs? It feels like the only way to do it while skirting Title IX is to create separate entities outside of the universities that actually operate the revenue sports, which essentially requires turning the entire collegiate athletics model on its head.

 

[sufandu]

So do you just remove all the non revenue sports with title iX issues in play?

the money is coming in for 2-3 sports if they do the pro model of like 40-50% goes to the players the schools are in deep doo doo.

The non-revenues would have to operate like lower divisions that don't have revenue sports to support them.

 

[pfister1]

I think schools should declare what sports are "revenue" sports and pay the players as employees and what are non-revenue sports, that is opportunities offered by the university to it's students, with different sets of rules for each.

So the new employees (frosh) start at minimum wage??

Go all the way back to the old system...athletes that go to school on scholarship, or that "walk on", have to make reasonable progress towards a "real" degree (ie. one that reasonable numbers of others in the school are paying to obtain) in order to remain eligible to participate in their sport. If they can't do that then they are ineligible... if they don't want a degree, find another path.

If you want to fix the "system" start with public grade schools.

 

[SWC75]

You might want to do that, but would the government go along with it? Especially if it remains structured as is, with the universities continuing to operate the athletic programs? It feels like the only way to do it while skirting Title IX is to create separate entities outside of the universities that actually operate the revenue sports, which essentially requires turning the entire collegiate athletics model on its head.

I remember Michigan's athletic program incorporating a generation ago.

 

[two3zone]

Imagine getting paid by the school you’re a student at. Have a feeling I’m going to hate college sports soon.

 

[chuck]

Imagine getting paid by the school you’re a student at. Have a feeling I’m going to hate college sports soon.

Yeh and let's let the government have a hand in it and decide. Awful idea...smh

 

[Brooky03]

So the new employees (frosh) start at minimum wage??

Go all the way back to the old system...athletes that go to school on scholarship, or that "walk on", have to make reasonable progress towards a "real" degree (ie. one that reasonable numbers of others in the school are paying to obtain) in order to remain eligible to participate in their sport. If they can't do that then they are ineligible... if they don't want a degree, find another path.

If you want to fix the "system" start with public grade schools.

The only hope the NCAA has of controlling the current Wild West landscape of NIL and unrestricted free agency (aka transfer portal) is to make the players employees.

The ‘progress toward a degree’ angle is fine in theory, but that’s not at the heart of the current issues, imo. Also, lots of universities have students earning degrees that aren’t rigorous. Psychology degrees stand out as the typical example. So, it’s easy for academically challenged student-athletes to make progress toward a real degree. If we’re talking 5th or 6th year guys, some Masters programs aren’t too daunting and they could always just go for another ‘easy’ bachelors degree. There are a lot of ways around that requirement.

 

[two3zone]

The only hope the NCAA has of controlling the current Wild West landscape of NIL and unrestricted free agency (aka transfer portal) is to make the players employees.

The ‘progress toward a degree’ angle is fine in theory, but that’s not at the heart of the current issues, imo. Also, lots of universities have students earning degrees that aren’t rigorous. Psychology degrees stand out as the typical example. So, it’s easy for academically challenged student-athletes to make progress toward a real degree. If we’re talking 5th or 6th year guys, some Masters programs aren’t too daunting and they could always just go for another ‘easy’ bachelors degree. There are a lot of ways around that requirement.

At what point could teams and conferences leave the NCAA? Or is that irrelevant to all of this?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Non revenue sports can scale down their expenses easily. I mean unless we are talking Big Ten travel stupidity. None of them are hurting for facilities after the gold rush they have enjoyed piggy backing on the revenue programs.

And yes please let some extra non revenue females play sports in college to offset or even out the football team (but FB doesn’t even count all the schollies vs title ix) if a grad student is the field hockey coach vs someone making $200k who cares? Reduce the travel play back to back games etc.

 

[shandeezy7]

At what point could teams and conferences leave the NCAA? Or is that irrelevant to all of this?

I don’t think leaving the NCAA would have any effect on academic requirements nor on Title IX ramifications. Trying to game the systems by offering sham degrees for athletes is how colleges run afoul of accreditation agencies that can result in disastrous consequences for these schools. It’s what almost happened to UNC with their scandal (that the NCAA deemed fine ).

 

[Brooky03]

At what point could teams and conferences leave the NCAA? Or is that irrelevant to all of this?

I think it’s relevant. I do think there will be some kind of split, but I imagine it will be more like we have NCAA OG and NCAA II: Electric Boogaloo

 

[pfister1]

The ‘progress toward a degree’ angle is fine in theory, but that’s not at the heart of the current issues, imo. Also, lots of universities have students earning degrees that aren’t rigorous. Psychology degrees stand out as the typical example. So, it’s easy for academically challenged student-athletes to make progress toward a real degree. If we’re talking 5th or 6th year guys, some Masters programs aren’t too daunting and they could always just go for another ‘easy’ bachelors degree. There are a lot of ways around that requirement.

The point is that they are supposed to be treated like all other students (non-athletes and non-scholarship athletes). If the school is offering BS degree programs (that’s bull spit not Bachelor of Science) to its entire student body and students are paying for them that’s not for the NCAA to deal with, the school’s reputation will take a hit.

 

[Brooky03]

The point is that they are supposed to be treated like all other students (non-athletes and non-scholarship athletes). If the school is offering BS degree programs (that’s bull spit not Bachelor of Science) to its entire student body and students are paying for them that’s not for the NCAA to deal with, the school’s reputation will take a hit.

We might be talking about two different things. I’m coming at this from the angle of the recent court decisions and the wrench that athlete compensation is throwing into this.

 

[pfister1]

We might be talking about two different things. I’m coming at this from the angle of the recent court decisions and the wrench that athlete compensation is throwing into this.

Gotcha. I’m not a fan of any cash or cash equivalent compensation system for student athletes. Create professional minor league systems to develop the future pro-athletes. Do it like baseball does, if you have no interest in the education go straight to the “minor” league.


I watch and root for Cuse because of the “S” on the jersey not because of any individual player. Of course I become a fan of those players that wear the S but it’s because of the S, not because of who they may be.

 

[Brooky03]

Gotcha. I’m not a fan of any cash or cash equivalent compensation system for student athletes. Create professional minor league systems to develop the future pro-athletes. Do it like baseball does, if you have no interest in the education go straight to the “minor” league.


I watch and root for Cuse because of the “S” on the jersey not because of any individual player. Of course I become a fan of those players that where the S but it’s because of the S, not because of who they may be.

I’d prefer that system, too. I’m worried pandora’s box has been opened and we can’t go back.

 

[sufandu]

I watch and root for Cuse because of the “S” on the jersey not because of any individual player. Of course I become a fan of those players that wear the S but it’s because of the S, not because of who they may be.

Yeah. I just saw that Caitlyn Clark is making more in NIL than her salary would be if she was in the WNBA. That shows that it isn't just the university benefiting from the athletes, as some have said. The athletes are also benefiting from the followings that are tied to the schools.

 

[HakAttack]

Imagine getting paid by the school you’re a student at. Have a feeling I’m going to hate college sports soon.

It’s already happened for decades. Did you hate college basketball when bag men were out in the open?

 

[HakAttack]

Yeah. I just saw that Caitlyn Clark is making more in NIL than her salary would be if she was in the WNBA. That shows that it isn't just the university benefiting from the athletes, as some have said. The athletes are also benefiting from the followings that are tied to the schools.

That’s only because the WNBA pays its players peanuts. That speaks more to how unprofitable it is for women in the professional sport realm than NIL, TBH.

 

[HakAttack]

There’s some great points in this podcast, IMO. Anyone that is at all remotely interested in this issue should watch it in its entirety.


The NCAA is a cartel and a farce and its reckoning is coming fast. We need to stop pretending D1 athletes aren’t employees and pay them appropriately.

I teach Sociology of Sport at SU and many of the athletes in my class know what bullsh**t the system of “amateurism” is.

 

[Brooky03]

Yeah. I just saw that Caitlyn Clark is making more in NIL than her salary would be if she was in the WNBA. That shows that it isn't just the university benefiting from the athletes, as some have said. The athletes are also benefiting from the followings that are tied to the schools.

Caitlyn’s case is one of the athlete benefitting from the athlete. She’s not making that money because she plays for Iowa.

 

[sufandu]

Caitlyn’s case is one of the athlete benefitting from the athlete. She’s not making that money because she plays for Iowa.

The point is, she will be the same player as a pro and her salary will be lower. If it was only about the player, that wouldn't be the case.

 

[sufandu]

That’s only because the WNBA pays its players peanuts. That speaks more to how unprofitable it is for women in the professional sport realm than NIL, TBH.

But if it's only about the players, that is illogical. You take the best players from college and put them together in the pros and the game is less popular than the college game? That proves that there is a built in following because of the connections fans have to schools that contributes to the popularity of the players.

It doesn't have to be Caitlyn Clark and women's basketball. If you take the top 350 male college basketball players, remove them from college and put them on 30 minor league teams, very few people will care about most of them. It would be like baseball. There would be a few prospects that people would follow because they anticipate them making a splash when they move up to the NBA. The rest would be forgotten because there's no emotional connection to a minor league pro team, and if you're watching pros you're not wasting your time watching lower levels when the highest level is available.