Need to vent

[JoeySimz]

about a couple of things. Maybe I'm a homer. Believe you me, I yell at the tv just as much as any Cuse fan when the team struggles. But I believe in the program and feel lucky to have watched the team play entertaining basketball over the years. I'm not on here much so forgive me if any of this rant is redundant.

1. The Zone - what's with all the anti-zone ? I realize our defense isn't as good as it has been in the past. I've actually enjoyed reading some of the threads on here regarding the pluses/minuses of playing the zone. Some of you really know your stuff. But do m2m teams' fan bases bitch and moan to play zone when they give up easy buckets? Or when they get beat off the dribble? Do they blame the coach? When Duke loses do Duke fans want K to swith to Zone?

2. Jimmy B - what's with all the anti-Jimmy B ? I don't get fans who blame Coach for ncaa violations committed by others. It's like they buy into all that coach is the ceo crap and therefore he's accountable for a college kid smoking weed 20 years ago. Then to top it off they blame his personality/demeanor at press conferences for an unsavory national image that must have led to the investigation in the first place. Like if he was just a more congenial, friendly guy like, oh i dunno, Coach K, we wouldn't be in trouble. So he should straighten up and fly right and just take blame for everything he didn't do? And while he's at it should he hold a press conference and cry and apologize to all the dumbasses in the media, local and national, for not being nicer? It sure seems like someone in the NCAA has a personal vendetta against Jimmy B. Imo, the guy's handled it with integrity and he won't sell out just to make you feel better.

 

[bballbeadle]

Rant accomplished! Yes, all those points have been made before here and you have allies on the board.

 

[CusefanATL]

about a couple of things. Maybe I'm a homer. Believe you me, I yell at the tv just as much as any Cuse fan when the team struggles. But I believe in the program and feel lucky to have watched the team play entertaining basketball over the years. I'm not on here much so forgive me if any of this rant is redundant.

1. The Zone - what's with all the anti-zone . . . . ? I realize our defense isn't as good as it has been in the past. I've actually enjoyed reading some of the threads on here regarding the pluses/minuses of playing the zone. Some of you really know your stuff. But do m2m teams' fan bases bitch and moan to play zone when they give up easy buckets? Or when they get beat off the dribble? Do they blame the coach? When Duke loses do Duke fans want K to swith to Zone?

2. Jimmy B - what's with all the anti-Jimmy B ? I don't get fans who blame Coach for ncaa violations committed by others. It's like they buy into all that coach is the ceo crap and therefore he's accountable for a college kid smoking weed 20 years ago. Then to top it off they blame his personality/demeanor at press conferences for an unsavory national image that must have led to the investigation in the first place. Like if he was just a more congenial, friendly guy like, oh i dunno, Coach K, we wouldn't be in trouble. So he should straighten up and fly right and just take blame for everything he didn't do? And while he's at it should he hold a press conference and cry and apologize to all the dumbasses in the media, local and national, for not being nicer? It sure seems like someone in the NCAA has a personal vendetta against Jimmy B. Imo, the guy's handled it with integrity and he won't sell out just to make you feel better.

I just think its the failure to try to make any adjustments that is frustrating the fans. This team isn't as bad as the record indicates but we keep doing the exact same thing. And its really not just this season. Its the last 57 or so games, we are a .500 team and way below .500 in the ACC (like 7 games below .500)

Duke hasnt been 10-7 in like 25 years.

Remember when Gody went down for ND? They were only 7 deep and lost BY FAR their best player. Brey (of all people, an average coach) made the decision to slwo the game down to a crawl and take shots with 1 or 2 seconds left on the shot clock. They ended up being a pretty good team that year playing 6 bad major d1 players.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I just think its the failure to try to make any adjustments that is frustrating the fans. This team isn't as bad as the record indicates but we keep doing the exact same thing.

Ding ding. Winner. And it's been going on. That soul crushing Oh My God defense from the final four run isn't here and has been getting worse every season. Syracuse fans have been pretty much beat up over the last decade. There's a final four run in there, but it's been a whole lot of bad news. SU hasn't lost more than 14 games in ... forever. It's a distinct possibility this season.

Spoiled? yeah maybe, but what fan base isn't? Kansas gets a bumper crop of talent and wins the Big12 every season. Their fans are always grousing. Imagine if Duke lost more than 12 games and finished in the bottom half of the ACC in back-to-back seasons, you think Coach K, patron saint of college basketball, wouldn't be getting some criticism?

 

[Alsacs]

We are all diehards. The real problem is people were complaining in 2012 when we went 30-1 in the regular season. That complaining was annoying. These past 2 years complaining has been justified.
As a top tier program Syracuse shouldn't have back to back really poor seasons. JB's history has been consistency and even when he has been down our worst teams have been bubble teams. This team doesn't even look like a bubble team and last year's team would have been a bubble on the wrong side.

 

[orangecuse]

Ding ding. Winner. And it's been going on. That soul crushing Oh My God defense from the final four run isn't here and has been getting worse every season. Syracuse fans have been pretty much beat up over the last decade. There's a final four run in there, but it's been a whole lot of bad news. SU hasn't lost more than 14 games in ... forever. It's a distinct possibility this season.

Spoiled? yeah maybe, but what fan base isn't? Kansas gets a bumper crop of talent and wins the Big12 every season. Their fans are always grousing. Imagine if Duke lost more than 12 games and finished in the bottom half of the ACC in back-to-back seasons, you think Coach K, patron saint of college basketball, wouldn't be getting some criticism?

Nope, not anymore...but only because last season he finally got one for the thumb!

 

[Zelda Zonk]

like your SU love, but maybe we can 'love' in different ways. I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging fault in something you love. Or, with debating different ways to skin a dog. Debate is the only thing that makes this forum interesting. Rah-rah pep rallies get boring. Quickly.

1. Anti-zone. Not sure why you think it's so odd that people don't like it. Out of all of the NCAA D1 teams in the country, we're pretty unique. That kinda indicates that the vast (super vast) majority of other coaches (and fans) don't favor the zone as a primary defense. It's actually an outlier for us to 'like' it, and i even question that — that we 'like' it. We defend it, too often, because attacking it feels like an attack on us/the program/an institution that represents us somehow. But, objectively, that's not the case.

K has won enough that he doesn't have to defend his system. Some say the same about JB. But, objectively, there are (simplistically) two different schools of thought. If it's perplexing for a fan to choose the one that 95% of the other experts (coaches) choose, then i don't know what else to say. We're not siding 'against JB,' we're siding WITH other 'experts.'

2. Anti-Jimmy B. Blaming Coach for violations committed by others. Well, who, then, should be ultimately responsible? This is our SECOND go-round with violations. That's, at least, one too many. While i (and Jay) don't believe the punishment was in line with the offenses, there were offenses. And, if the head coach isn't liable, then no one is. And, the NCAA can't exist without someone being liable. No, he's not liable for a college kid smoking weed. He's liable for knowing about it (failed drug tests) and ignoring it. It is/was still illegal. We rag on other programs when they have incidents with alcohol — didn't a kid recently run over his teammate while they were both drunk? The law is the law, despite rationalizations of 'normalcy.' There was a university drug testing protocol. If you know the results and then ignore them, that means something.

The money. Not a lot of money, if you ask me. But, where's the line? How often do our members rant about PayPal Cal? Illegal payments to athletes are like cockroaches. If y0u see one, there are many more lurking elsewhere. The violations were discovered. They had to be punished. Who's to blame? No, i don't believe a coach can know everything. But, it's a deterrent if the program is punished. We need those types of 'checks and balances.' Pitino claims he didn't know about hookers and strippers in his teams' dorms. No one outside of Louisville believes that denial. No different with us. Sometimes we're too close to the situation and it's an 'outsiders versus us' scenario. Facts are facts, even when they're against us. Still, when something/someone is close to us, we feel they're still meant to be defended. Your child commits a crime. You try to get him a break. If it were someone else's kid, you'd want the book thrown at him. Human nature. But, it's not logical or representative of truth or what's good for the community.

JB's behavior. Well, he's boorish. Dickish at times. It's unnecessary. It's ugly at times. And, yeah — maybe it has something, over many many years, to do with how he's treated. I personally don't get the connection: media / NCAA. But, whatever. If you're rude to innocent people in public, there are probably going to be consequences. Somehow. A lot of people think it's 'fun,' seeing JB 'stick it' to someone. Maybe they think he should get a pass because he's famous/in the HOF/whatever. But, again. Consequences. If JB chooses to do that, without recognizing that grace might be a better approach than surliness, then he's got to live with the (possible) results. Unfortunately, as a representative of our university, he's passing along those results to us. I don't believe the two things have anything to do with each other. But, people like to find conspiracies. Makes them feel intelligent... Either way, the 'Popovic' aura is condescending. That's never going to go over well. And, again, because it's 'our guy' doing it, a lot of us are going to like/forgive it. I don't.

Not sure i understand what you're talking about. Jb's handled What with integrity? Won't sell out to make Who feel better about What? What part is a "sell out?" Treating other people with respect? Maybe you think his 'honesty' is to be commended. But, no one is Honest all the time. We calibrate our speech and our actions to be appropriate for the given situation. At least, the mature people do. Then, you have a Bieber, who kinda doesn't...

 

[Zelda Zonk]

As a top tier program Syracuse shouldn't have back to back really poor seasons. JB's history has been consistency and even when he has been down our worst teams have been bubble teams. This team doesn't even look like a bubble team and last year's team would have been a bubble on the wrong side.

The Red Sox finished in last place three out of four seasons. Sandwiching a World Series win. Sometimes shtuff happens... The Sawx tried to adjust/adapt each time. But, sometimes the adjustments don't work either.

Heck, even a Kentucky team loaded with HS stars went to the NIT just a few years ago.

Fact is, we don't have the personnel this year. Our center is limited. Our bench doesn't produce. We rely on the 3, which is new and unique for our program. We don't do that well... yet. And that scheme is inherently inconsistent anyway. Villanova has been at it for a long time, and they've never really gone anywhere with it. We have two freshman playing prominent roles. They're going to be up and down. We have a point guard who isn't...a point guard. He's been great most of the year, but not so much after better teams have had a chance to see what they need to do against him. The guy who probably would be playing most of the Center position for us was never on campus. That means we both lost a guy who probably would have gotten 'starter minutes,' and we lost depth at that position. Having to play Tyler Lydon there is a (bad) compromise, not a (good) strategy.

We're not a top tier program anymore. We were, when we were the head of our own conference. Despite how we've fared nationally during JB's tenure, it's a new ballgame in the ACC. It doesn't mean the Big East wasn't as good as the ACC. It's just different. Duke, NC (barring the Death Penalty), Louisville, and even Virginia are going to be above us now. We're used to being the big dog, with only UConn (and later, Louisville) being occasional challengers in the past 15 years. But, even then, we were still on a level field with those guys. We are decidedly below the top ACC teams now. Logistics and geography are not working for us anymore. We've been under investigation for a long time. And, the "HOF coach" is leaving. That's going to be a recruiting blow for a few years.

"Consistency," i'm afraid, is gone.

 

[Alsacs]

If we win an NCAA title then we can go to the NIT 3 out of 4 years. As the whole point of playing is winning the entire thing.

 

[Eric15]

2. Jimmy B - what's with all the anti-Jimmy B ? I don't get fans who blame Coach for ncaa violations committed by others. It's like they buy into all that coach is the ceo crap

I just don't see it. I think JB is nothing short of a demigod on this board. And the idea that "coach is the CEO" isn't crap, it's a fundamental fact of any successful organization.

 

[Cuse'91]

If we win an NCAA title then we can go to the NIT 3 out of 4 years. As the whole point of playing is winning the entire thing.

Then we need to be recruiting the Tyler Cavanaughs of the world, and then wait for them to be seniors...

 

[Alsacs]

As much as we love and appreciate JB he has to take some of the blame for the NCAA stuff. While he obviously didn't tell the tutors to cheat for Fab Melo the fact SU had a policy of calling parents when kids failed drugs and we didn't adhere to hurt us.

It was stupid to have rules and then not follow them. JB has to take the blame for that.

 

[Flacusian]

like your SU love, but maybe we can 'love' in different ways. I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging fault in something you love. Or, with debating different ways to skin a dog. Debate is the only thing that makes this forum interesting. Rah-rah pep rallies get boring. Quickly.

1. Anti-zone. Not sure why you think it's so odd that people don't like it. Out of all of the NCAA D1 teams in the country, we're pretty unique. That kinda indicates that the vast (super vast) majority of other coaches (and fans) don't favor the zone as a primary defense. It's actually an outlier for us to 'like' it, and i even question that — that we 'like' it. We defend it, too often, because attacking it feels like an attack on us/the program/an institution that represents us somehow. But, objectively, that's not the case.

K has won enough that he doesn't have to defend his system. Some say the same about JB. But, objectively, there are (simplistically) two different schools of thought. If it's perplexing for a fan to choose the one that 95% of the other experts (coaches) choose, then i don't know what else to say. We're not siding 'against JB,' we're siding WITH other 'experts.'

2. Anti-Jimmy B. Blaming Coach for violations committed by others. Well, who, then, should be ultimately responsible? This is our SECOND go-round with violations. That's, at least, one too many. While i (and Jay) don't believe the punishment was in line with the offenses, there were offenses. And, if the head coach isn't liable, then no one is. And, the NCAA can't exist without someone being liable. No, he's not liable for a college kid smoking weed. He's liable for knowing about it (failed drug tests) and ignoring it. It is/was still illegal. We rag on other programs when they have incidents with alcohol — didn't a kid recently run over his teammate while they were both drunk? The law is the law, despite rationalizations of 'normalcy.' There was a university drug testing protocol. If you know the results and then ignore them, that means something.

The money. Not a lot of money, if you ask me. But, where's the line? How often do our members rant about PayPal Cal? Illegal payments to athletes are like cockroaches. If y0u see one, there are many more lurking elsewhere. The violations were discovered. They had to be punished. Who's to blame? No, i don't believe a coach can know everything. But, it's a deterrent if the program is punished. We need those types of 'checks and balances.' Pitino claims he didn't know about hookers and strippers in his teams' dorms. No one outside of Louisville believes that denial. No different with us. Sometimes we're too close to the situation and it's an 'outsiders versus us' scenario. Facts are facts, even when they're against us. Still, when something/someone is close to us, we feel they're still meant to be defended. Your child commits a crime. You try to get him a break. If it were someone else's kid, you'd want the book thrown at him. Human nature. But, it's not logical or representative of truth or what's good for the community.

JB's behavior. Well, he's boorish. Dickish at times. It's unnecessary. It's ugly at times. And, yeah — maybe it has something, over many many years, to do with how he's treated. I personally don't get the connection: media / NCAA. But, whatever. If you're rude to innocent people in public, there are probably going to be consequences. Somehow. A lot of people think it's 'fun,' seeing JB 'stick it' to someone. Maybe they think he should get a pass because he's famous/in the HOF/whatever. But, again. Consequences. If JB chooses to do that, without recognizing that grace might be a better approach than surliness, then he's got to live with the (possible) results. Unfortunately, as a representative of our university, he's passing along those results to us. I don't believe the two things have anything to do with each other. But, people like to find conspiracies. Makes them feel intelligent... Either way, the 'Popovic' aura is condescending. That's never going to go over well. And, again, because it's 'our guy' doing it, a lot of us are going to like/forgive it. I don't.

Not sure i understand what you're talking about. Jb's handled What with integrity? Won't sell out to make Who feel better about What? What part is a "sell out?" Treating other people with respect? Maybe you think his 'honesty' is to be commended. But, no one is Honest all the time. We calibrate our speech and our actions to be appropriate for the given situation. At least, the mature people do. Then, you have a Bieber, who kinda doesn't...

Excellent post.

 

[Alsacs]

Then we need to be recruiting the Tyler Cavanaughs of the world, and then wait for them to be seniors...

A team of Tyler Cavanaugh players aren't winning an NCAA title. If we are going for the whole shabang we would need a team of 1 and dones that would outtalent teams.

We aren't going to do that. I am just saying I am a Red Sox fan and don't care about last place finishes. They won a title in 2013 that earns them a lot of good will. I don't want to be the Tigers and competitive each year with 0 WS titles. Give me feast or famine as long as we get titles out of it. Titles are forever.

 

[jdubs30]

Duke and Kansas get top 5 classes year in and year out, we just aren't on that level. We are closer to the Louisville's and MSU's. Every once in a while you hit the jackpot where everything goes right with the roster for a season or 2, then you have a season or 2 where you tread on th ebubble.

 

[br801]

A team of Tyler Cavanaugh players aren't winning an NCAA title. If we are going for the whole shabang we would need a team of 1 and dones that would outtalent teams.

We aren't going to do that. I am just saying I am a Red Sox fan and don't care about last place finishes. They won a title in 2013 that earns them a lot of good will. I don't want to be the Tigers and competitive each year with 0 WS titles. Give me feast or famine as long as we get titles out of it. Titles are forever.

The JB era has been characterized by consistency, with the periodic championship run. He has one skin, has been on the doorstep a few other times, and has bad luck derail a few other serious title contenders. That's pretty good, IMO, but if your sole criterion for success is titles won, I suppose you'd have a different opinion. The feast or famine approach would require a paradigm shift, and that's not happening under JB or after he rides off into the sunset, in all likelihood.